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I was responding mostly to the forging plant example.
I'm guessing that the fields that involve hard physical work are still very male-dominated, or at least, were the last fields to start admitting women. These fields, therefore, may be more likely to have more overt sexism happening. A group of men doing backbreaking or dangerous work may have a different standard of what's acceptable to say to women then, say, the people in my office.
In white collar environments, people have gotten so much training on sexual harassment, cultural sensitivity, etc, that any sexism that still exists may be more covert or subtle. There are different standards of what's "normal" in different fields and different workplaces.
Hey, I'm not saying these things as truths. Read my posts; I have some hypotheses and I was looking for examples that support or refute them. Just speculating here.
I respect women who decide to work in physically demanding or dangerous fields; I sure as heck wouldn't do it. I guess if a woman is tough enough to fight fires, mine coal, or work on an oil rig, then handling a little sexist behavior from co-workers is nothing!
There is nothing more sexist that a two-tiered salary system. And when it comes to making money, women consistently are paid less than men.....across the board- doctor, lawyer, corporate executive- the numbers dispute your observation.
So, while you may not have someone asking you to bring them coffee, if the salary numbers aren't matching up, that's sexism in its strongest form. And if you say that you have not seen it, then you aren't looking.
From a 2005 survey of Fortune 500 companies-
Women occupied only 9.4 percent of "clout" titles and were twice as likely as men to hold staff vs. line positions, making it harder to get the kind of experience needed to reach the top levels in most organizations.
Women held only 6.4 percent of top-earner positions; 75 percent of the FORTUNE 500 reported no women as top earners.
In the legal profession, the American Bar Association says the salaries of female lawyers are slipping in comparison with those of their male colleagues. Again according to the most recent statistics available, female attorneys' weekly wages amounted to 70.5 percent of male lawyers' in 2006, compared with 77.5 percent in 2005
The same is true for physicians and in the fields of science, engineering and technology.
I am guessing by your age that you are not far enough up the corporate ladder to have bumped your head on the glass ceiling. And I hope that things change before you reach that point in your career, but I can't imagine that they will. Do all the research that you can to know which corporations are more gender neutral when it comes to career advancement and steer your career in that direction.
There is a reason that between 1997 and 2006, the number of majority women-owned businesses increased 42%. We got tired of bumping up against that damn glass ceiling!
I have never worked in a blue collar setting or for a family owned business. I have worked in IT, law firms, and hospitality industries and I am a college graduate. (So that means my experiences are legitimate while women working in the dirty fields and for family owned businesses deserve what they get, right?)
this is what im talking about tracy, i doubt anyone else thought you were saying anything of the sort. look back at my original point. the world is tough, people aren't just out to get people. for the most part.
I'm in my early 30s, I work in a professional environment, and I can promise you that there is rampant (though much more subtle) sexism going on. Surprising, to say the least.
There is nothing more sexist that a two-tiered salary system. And when it comes to making money, women consistently are paid less than men.....across the board- doctor, lawyer, corporate executive- the numbers dispute your observation.
So, while you may not have someone asking you to bring them coffee, if the salary numbers aren't matching up, that's sexism in its strongest form. And if you say that you have not seen it, then you aren't looking.
From a 2005 survey of Fortune 500 companies-
Women occupied only 9.4 percent of "clout" titles and were twice as likely as men to hold staff vs. line positions, making it harder to get the kind of experience needed to reach the top levels in most organizations.
Women held only 6.4 percent of top-earner positions; 75 percent of the FORTUNE 500 reported no women as top earners.
In the legal profession, the American Bar Association says the salaries of female lawyers are slipping in comparison with those of their male colleagues. Again according to the most recent statistics available, female attorneys' weekly wages amounted to 70.5 percent of male lawyers' in 2006, compared with 77.5 percent in 2005
The same is true for physicians and in the fields of science, engineering and technology.
I am guessing by your age that you are not far enough up the corporate ladder to have bumped your head on the glass ceiling. And I hope that things change before you reach that point in your career, but I can't imagine that they will. Do all the research that you can to know which corporations are more gender neutral when it comes to career advancement and steer your career in that direction.
There is a reason that between 1997 and 2006, the number of majority women-owned businesses increased 42%. We got tired of bumping up against that damn glass ceiling!
these types of positions can certainly be skewed. i highly doubt a company owner or high executive give a crap if his ceo, or physician etc. are male or female. as a man i can say that i am going to hire whoever is putting more money in my pockets. i had a female boss(actually my bosses boss) that had absolutely no experience in the field she was in charge of thus running the company into the ground. she was in charge of 100% men. i would assume that the natural personality differences might have something to do with these numbers. not to mention the percent of stay at home moms. amount of women that work in the waitressing industry. single mothers that don't have the time or resources to put into there jobs all have a lot to do with these statistics as well. once again i'm certainly not a sexist, just a realist. my mom has a very high position in one of the biggest auto companies in the world. in a work environment full of men. why? because she has a hard working mentality and doesn't take any crap. if you want to improve your job position. work longer hours, don't complain, don't believe that everything should be "fair" and work your a$$ off and i definately believe your career view will change.
i believe sexism and sexual harassment are two different things. sexual harrassment is what i believe annika and northdallas are talking about. just my opinion.
Yes, they are different.
At the pizza place, I did experience sexism (I didn't answer this in my original post-I went off on a tangent).
I was the only female cook and was paid $7 an hour when the male cooks were paid anywhere from $8-$9 an hour; this I know because one day we all discussed our salaries. This is something I think employees should normally NOT do, but these were different circmstances.
I had more experience than my male counterparts, not to mention I was a far better and harder worker as well. I pulled my weight more than they did, I never came in late, I helped in other areas of the kitchen when they wouldn't (answering phones, washing dishes, doing prep, cleaning chicken, making dough, etc), they were always going outside to smoke, I could go on and on..yet they were paid considerably more than I was and my boss flatly refused to give me a raise. Why?
I remember my boss standing and watching me work one day, and saying "The only good woman is one in the kitchen". I'm not one of those feminists who get riled up and look for reasons to point fingers at men for wrongdoings, but please tell me that's not sexism in the workplace!
That was my last day on the job. I didn't come back after that.
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