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Lol, So you think that the Soviet Union lost the cold war because they refused to use their NUKES in an all-out war??? The "Russians" still have a first class military so you think they can become an economic superpower by sending their troops back into Europe again?
Sorry, but you are delusional.
During WW2, The Axis powers were the ones attempting to create a global monopoly by brute force while the rest of the world were fighting to prevent that.
During the Cold War, The Soviets realized that their world class military was impotent given the global military balance of power and their economies went bankrupt financing research and development of weapons they can't use!
History has shown that Military empires in the past were never able to maintain their power indefinitely, not to mention no one actually managed to conquer the whole world either.
Seriously, your solution is simple because you have a simple mind if you think we can take on another MILITARY superpower head-on in the nuclear age. The U.S. Russians and China have no interest in waging WW 3 because they understand the consequences would be devastating for everyone. Thank God our world leaders have that much intelligence.
Why haven't you signed up with the military?
After all, Your solution would require a military draft and millions of Americans willing to die on the battlefield instead of competing for a job. I don't know why you are bothering to work or look for a job when all you really need is an M-16. If you are an advocate of military force, then you should be part of it, rise thru the ranks to become general, admiral.. etc.
On the other hand, I guess if a few nuclear warheads hit the U.S. that will be great for our post-war economy because we will have lots of jobs available for nuclear cleanup.
This economic war requires Brains, not Brawn.
Employers aren't looking for tough guys, they are looking for smart guys.
Unfortunately, your post shows our country might not have the mental ammunition to win that. I guess that's why employers are hiring foreigners.
Btw, it was a smart foreigner who was responsible for us having the nuclear bomb first... Albert Einstein.
I am actually working on a second degree that is more pointed towards weapons development, I prefer the development as opposed to fighting, where there are problems we need to be able to push buttons and make them go away. I noticed you skirted around the fact that WW2 put us on the map as a nation, regardless of who the aggressor was or what the ins and outs of the war were, we won it and our infrastructure was not destroyed and theres was thus giving us a huge advantage for like 50 years, no one argues that fact, most historians agree had it not been for WW2 all the farting around in the world with "global economics" would not have put us on the map.
Also military technology translates into civilian technology, almost every piece of high tech gagetry you use could have a stamp on it that says darpa inside. The problem is we give away our technology, we give away our wealth and multi nationals and our own gov are selling us out.
If I as a scientist invent something or do something that something should be benifiting my country men not the world. At the end of the day I do what I enjoy and dont concern myself to much with our sinking ship (other than this forum for entertainment lol) but our kids will be peasants, they will have to shed blood if they want the old american way of life, staunch workers rights etc.
Your right war is devastating, its the result of pissing off thoes that are smarter than you and trying to exploit their intellectual property or way of life. Thats what great britian did to Germany after WW1 and it was a big mistake and it would be a mistake for the chineese to do it to us.
As far as russia they had some pretty serious internal problems and they never allowed their military technology to translate into civilian uses, plus they lost, they went bankrupt before us.
I am actually working on a second degree that is more pointed towards weapons development, I prefer the development as opposed to fighting, where there are problems we need to be able to push buttons and make them go away. I noticed you skirted around the fact that WW2 put us on the map as a nation, regardless of who the aggressor was or what the ins and outs of the war were, we won it and our infrastructure was not destroyed and theres was thus giving us a huge advantage for like 50 years, no one argues that fact, most historians agree had it not been for WW2 all the farting around in the world with "global economics" would not have put us on the map.
Also military technology translates into civilian technology, almost every piece of high tech gagetry you use could have a stamp on it that says darpa inside. The problem is we give away our technology, we give away our wealth and multi nationals and our own gov are selling us out.
If I as a scientist invent something or do something that something should be benifiting my country men not the world. At the end of the day I do what I enjoy and dont concern myself to much with our sinking ship (other than this forum for entertainment lol) but our kids will be peasants, they will have to shed blood if they want the old american way of life, staunch workers rights etc.
Your right war is devastating, its the result of pissing off thoes that are smarter than you and trying to exploit their intellectual property or way of life. Thats what great britian did to Germany after WW1 and it was a big mistake and it would be a mistake for the chineese to do it to us.
As far as russia they had some pretty serious internal problems and they never allowed their military technology to translate into civilian uses, plus they lost, they went bankrupt before us.
Actually, civilian technology can also translate to military technology as Einstein never intended his theories to end up being used as destructively as it was.
Why would you think China will be a threat given that global military hegemony was displayed by the west in the past against China & not vice-versa?
It is actually a big mistake for you to think that COLONIAL conquests in the PAST by the west can be duplicated in the present.
What happened with the voyage of Columbus and the conquest of Americas along with global Colonialism was that the rest of the world was caught unprepared.
There were many times the western world could have been decimated by asian military might particulary by the Huns, Mongols and Ancient China but many civilizations in the East were busy fighting amongst themselves and China often didn't concern itself with the world outside the Great Wall... so the era of western colonial might is just a teardrop in the waterfall of history when China ignored the threat posed to it.
China survived it's falls unlike Rome and it's history proves their resilance as a civilization.
China had been the most powerful, biggest and prosperous state in the world for nearly two millenniums.
That's most of human civilization... until the nineteenth century.
Even during the era of colonialism, Napolean proclaimed:
"Let China Sleep, For When She Wakes, She Will Shake the World."
You are living in a different era where China is awake and you are the one spouting how "your" side can destroy them, just like former colonial powers thought they could but now they are merely bystanders in a new world order.
The U.S. has never won a war in Asia after WW2. Korean war was a stalemate, the Vietnam war was a defeat.
China played a key role in both but it was fighting a defensive war to protect it's borders not a war of aggression.
The U.S. knew that a land war in Asia if it involves China's intervention is un-winnable.
Policies of Presidents from Truman / Kennedy / Johnson / Nixon / Reagan / Clinton / Bush 1, 2 / Obama have all sought to avoid military confrontations with China yet you foolishly advocate it.
It is more advisable that you not pizz anyone off with threats to destroy a continent that historians and economists have predicted will lead the world into the next chapter of human civilization.
America isn't Europe, it is a country that is defined by new immigrants.
You don't even know who will be the Americans that will lead America into the future.
The americans you speak about adhering to some past way of life represent a bygone era, not the future.
You are welcome to put down your microscope and pickup an M-16 and shed your own blood like any typical terrorist if you have the audacity to do so.
China is merely partaking in the global economy we envisioned for ourselves.
There's no rules against them becoming better at it than we are.
You are not living in the 19th century.
Either adapt to the changes or become extinct.
Actually, civilian technology can also translate to military technology as Einstein never intended his theories to end up being used as destructively as it was.
It is actually a big mistake for you to think that COLONIAL conquests in the PAST by the west can be repeated in the present.
What happened with the voyage of Columbus and the conquest of Americas along with global colonialism was that the rest of the world unprepared.
There were many times the western world could have been decimated by asian military might particulary by the Huns, Mongols and Ancient China but many civilizations in the East were busy fighting amongst themselves and China often didn't concern itself with the world outside the Great Wall... so the era of western colonial might is just a teardrop in the waterfall of history when China ignored the threat posed to it.
China survived it's falls unlike Rome and it's history proves their resilance as a civilization.
China had been the most powerful and biggest state in the world for nearly two millenniums.
That's most of human civilization... until the nineteenth century.
Even during the era of colonialism, Napolean saw:
"Let China Sleep, For When She Wakes, She Will Shake the World."
You are living in a different era where China is awake and you are the one spouting how "your" side can destroy everyone just like former colonial powers thought they could do so forever and now they are merely bystanders in a new world order.
It is more advisable that you not pizz anyone off with threats to destroy countries that historians and economists have predicted will lead the world into the next chapter of human civilization.
America isn't Europe, it is a country that is defined by new immigrants.
You don't even know who will be the Americans that will lead America into the future.
The americans you speak about adhering to some past way of life represent a bygone era, not the future.
You are welcome to put down your microscope and pickup an AK-47 and shed your own blood like any typical terrorist if you even have the audacity to do so.
You are not living in the 19th century.
Either adapt to the changes or become extinct.
A world under china you will also be extinct, we will all be peasants for the communist rule. I Would rather pop off all the nukes in our arrsonal and call it day than to slave away under communist rule, we can all just blow each other up rather than grovel for 5 cents an hour.
It truely is a mystery to me as to why the chineese population has not toppled the communist regieme and demaded that females stop being killed and for living wages, could you image working for 5 cents an hour and there are few women around, taking up arms would look better and better every day.
Im all for someone becomming smart and sucessful but bill appropriately for it and stop perpetuating the race to the bottom. Its not the people that are the problem its the multi nationals and the exploitive governments on both the US side and the even more pronounced on the chineese side with their communist leadership. A few cruise missles would wipe thoes guys out and china could have a rigime change. The chineese leadership just might get a few cruise missles up their rear if they keep pushing the tiwan issue. That is a separate prong from the multi national issue which can be solved much easier becuase they are stateless soulless entities and as long as world treaties are created you can shut them down pretty easy with embargos and selective high taxes to prevent them from exploiting people, but as long as there are governments that facilitate that exploitation you cant shut them down.
Last edited by highlife2; 05-03-2011 at 12:31 PM..
A world under china you will also be extinct, we will all be peasants for the communist rule. I Would rather pop off all the nukes in our arrsonal and call it day than to slave away under communist rule, we can all just blow each other up rather than grovel for 5 cents an hour.
It truely is a mystery to me as to why the chineese population has not toppled the communist regieme and demaded that females stop being killed and for living wages, could you image working for 5 cents an hour and there are few women around, taking up arms would look better and better every day.
Lol, so the world under America & Europe created after genocides of natives all over the Americas and colonialism that lay the foundation for 2 World Wars was a good world for you to live in? Do you think all the death and destruction leading to your "way of life" was "worth it?"
What violence did it take to create European colonial empires?
What violence did it take to create America?
All triumphant civilizations accept that the means justify the ends if it's written by themselves.
Many Chinese are very nationalistic and understand that China's government is an evolution in progress. No different how Europeans look at their own oppressive history. Interesting how Anglo-Americans also romanticize the English Royal family despite fighting a war against being ruled by one.
China is not communist by blindly following that ideology created by the west.
They have simply taken from that ideology what was needed for political cohesion to throw off the last vestiges of colonialism.
The Colonialism that created your way of life was simply unacceptable to them.
Being communist or not does not define China as it did the former Soviet empire.
China is politically and economically more powerful than it was during the start of the Cold War.
China's living standards have improved dramatically along with increased wages. The Chinese government actually has many women in it's ranks and actively promotes women. "Oppression" against women mainly exist amongst some peasants who live old world farm lives where sons are more valued and their government is changing that by forceful relocation of entire villages where children are required to receive a modern education leaving much of those old world values behind.
Everything you post about China demonstrates a profound ignorance of the country and it's people past & present.
You are a poor historian and not up to date on current events.
Lol, so the world under America created after genocides all over the Americas and colonialism that lay the foundation for 2 World Wars was a good world for you to live in? Do you think all the death and destruction leading to your "way of life" was "worth it?"
What violence did it take to create European colonial empires?
What violence did it take to create America?
All triumphant civilizations accept that the means justify the ends if it's written by themselves. Many Chinese are very nationalistic and understand that China's government is an evolution in progress. No different how Europeans look at their own history.
Interesting how Anglo-Americans also romanticize the English Royal family despite fighting a war against being ruled by one.
China is not communist by blindly following that ideology created by the west.
They have simply taken from that ideology what was needed for political cohesion to throw off the last vestiges of colonialism.
Being communist or not does not define it as it did the former Soviet empire.
China is politically and economically more powerful than it was during the start of the Cold War.
China's living standards have improved dramatically along with increased wages. The Chinese government actually has many women in it's ranks and actively promotes women. "Oppression" against women mainly exist amongst some peasants who live old world farm lives where sons are more valued and their government is changing that by forceful relocation of entire villages where children are required to receive a modern education leaving much of those old world values behind.
Everything you post about China demonstrates a profound ignorance of the country and it's people past & present.
You are a poor historian and not up to date on current events.
So they are not working for 5 cents an hour and there are more women than men? Are the wages commensurate with american living standards in the 70's or 80's. If that is the case then I will say your right.
If the real truth is that men still out number women and they are making 10 cents an hour instead of 5 cents then your argument is moot. Unless of course rent in housing roughly equivantly to american standards is only 3$/month and a car is only 10$.
So I could go to china with my engineering degree among other experience and qualifications and make 80-100k a year and own a new vehical and have a carpeted 1500 sq ft condo with a big screen TV and have money to spend on numerous extras? Maybe thats true in Hong Kong because China left them alone after the british left becuase they made so much money but is that true of the rest of china? Maybe the media is lying to us and its one big party over there as we slip off into a sort of post solviet union state?
I had a friend that worked over there on an oil platform and when they were back on shore getting ready to do there 2 or 3 weeks off, 2 chineese were sealing some cable or something and the guards just shot them dead, they were so desperate to steal this metal that they risked their lives for it, people who are living the gravy train dont do that so it makes me wonder how much truth there is to what you are saying.
So they are not working for 5 cents an hour and there are more women than men? Are the wages commensurate with american living standards in the 70's or 80's. If that is the case then I will say your right.
If the real truth is that men still out number women and they are making 10 cents an hour instead of 5 cents then your argument is moot.
Lol, Why would China be compared to America in the 70's and 80's when America is a new country of immigrants?
That American lifestyle was created by benefits from centuries of colonialism as well slavery and cheap immigrant labor.
Why would Old world China with over a billion people make the same progress as America without the same history or benefits???
You compare a country's progress based on it's past - present.... comparing old world living standards they had BEFORE and MEASURE the improvements.
1.5 billion people, many who were peasants working and living in the countryside does not turn into a modern country overnight.
Any historian or econonomist would measure the improvements in such a huge population as amazing.
There are modern cities constructed on what were just countrysides a decade ago and a growing middle-class with new millionaires.
So there are also abuses in China, no kidding.
Why don't you listen to Reverend Wright or Al Sharpton talk about the police brutality in America and the bombing campaigns in sia to the Middle east if you want to hear all the horrible things about America ?
Human rights abuses can be defined as internal political imprisonment & executions in China.
Human rights abuses can be defined as America killing innocent civilians in waging a political war in Vietnam or Iraq.
Lol, Why would China be compared to America in the 70's and 80's when America is a new country of immigrants?
That American lifestyle was created by centuries of colonialism as well slavery and cheap immigrant labor.
You compare old world living standards they had BEFORE and MEASURE the improvements.
1.5 billion people, many who were peasants working and living in the countryside does not turn into a modern country overnight.
Any historian or econonomist would measure the improvements in such a huge population as amazing.
So there are also abuses in China, no kidding.
Why don't you listen to Reverend Wright or Al Sharpton talk about the police brutality in America and the bombing of Iraqi civilians if you want to hear all the horrible things about America ?
It all boils down to living standards for the citizens of the nation in question, all the rest of the discussion is distraction.
Because multi nationals are being allowed to exploit emerging markets while still taking advantage of the mature markets without consequece then our nation (the mature market) will fail because we have no buisness being in direct competition with an emerging market unless they have caught up to us in living standards, otherwise not hammering mulinationals serves no purpose other than to lower our own living standards to make a few buisness owners filthy rich.
If you can debate this specific fact then I will say your right, all I care about is living standards. Allowing soulless entities like multi nationals to float around exploiting the world just shoots yourself in the foot unless the goods shipped back over are heavily taxed to the equivalent of a US standard of living wage. Anything going out should be heavily taxed as well because thoes goods are going to be used for someone elses good not ours so we need to make sure we make a mint on it before it disappears on a ship.
It all boils down to living standards for the citizens of the nation in question, all the rest of the discussion is distraction.
Because multi nationals are being allowed to exploit emerging markets while still taking advantage of the mature markets without consequece then our nation (the mature market) will fail because we have no buisness being in direct competition with an emerging market unless they have caught up to us in living standards, otherwise not hammering mulinationals serves no purpose other than to lower our own living standards to make a few buisness owners filthy rich.
If you can debate this specific fact then I will say your right, all I care about is living standards. Allowing soulless entities like multi nationals to float around exploiting the world just shoots yourself in the foot unless the goods shipped back over are heavily taxed to the equivalent of a US standard of living wage. Anything going out should be heavily taxed as well because thoes goods are going to be used for someone elses good not ours so we need to make sure we make a mint on it before it disappears on a ship.
Lol, Multinationals are "exploiting" the SAME labor they did to create YOUR way of life.
How hypocritical.
You romanticize past abused peoples as the "losers" and people like yourself being "winners" because it benefitted YOUR lifestyle, but if it benefits another group more, it becomes unacceptable!
You advocate waging bloody war against foreign countries we outsource to and yet now pretend to be concerned with the welfare of those people.
The fact is that there are many people benefitting from overseas labor... Affordable goods for Americans, more profit for American businesses, improving wages for people in other countries.
But why are we just talking about cheap labor?
How many highly educated chinese - Indians are earning 1st world salaries in Call centers and IT??
Interesting how you suddenly ignore the higher paid outsourcing that is creating the middle-class lifestyles you're referring to.
Like I said, you're just upset because you are part of the group you called "losers" in the past.
Lol, Multinationals are "exploiting" the SAME labor they did to create YOUR way of life.
How hypocritical.
You romanticize past abused peoples as the "losers" and people like yourself being "winners" because it benefitted YOUR lifestyle, but if it benefits another group more, it becomes unacceptable!
The fact is that there are many people benefitting from overseas labor... Affordable goods for Americans, more profit for American businesses, improving wages for people in other countries.
But why are we just talking about cheap labor?
How many highly educated chinese - Indians are earning 1st world salaries in Call centers and IT??
Interesting how you suddenly ignore the higher paid outsourcing that is creating the middle-class lifestyles you're referring to.
Like I said, you're just upset because you are part of the "losers" now
You advocate bloody war against foreign countries yet now pretend to be concerned with the welfare of their people.
Correct, that is what I want to debate without the distractions. If your willing to throw your quality of life away thats fine but im not. If emerging markets can make it on their own merit thats fine and once they are equal to us in living standards and wages we can relax the tarrifs because there will not be a differential for a multi national to exploit. Just FYI you need to calm down or im done with this discussion.
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