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I wonder if Malamute can provide the income breakdown of folks without a college degree or the unemployment rates of those without a degree. I agree with him that a student is better off picking a major that would aid him/her in marketability in the workplace but I know from experience that many employers do not take you seriously unless you have the degree.
You people totally miss the point. If you have a college degree and can't find work, are you better off with your $40,000 debt with interest making it grow and no means to pay it down than someone with no debt and a $12 an hour job? Remember - you generally can't collect unemployment handouts straight out of school, and those unemployed college graduates from 2009 now are competing with those newly graduating of 2010.
Or if you're going to end up at Starbucks, would it be better to have zero debt and a 6 year jump on the job or a college degree and owe $40,000?
Maybe you guys think the debt people graduating has is just something to sneeze at - but for many, this debt will last them for decades. And they'd better pay it because it's not going away easily if they don't - and it can hurt their credit rating for many years to come if they miss the payments.
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute
You people totally miss the point. If you have a college degree and can't find work, are you better off with your $40,000 debt with interest making it grow and no means to pay it down than someone with no debt and a $12 an hour job? Remember - you generally can't collect unemployment handouts straight out of school, and those unemployed college graduates from 2009 now are competing with those newly graduating of 2010.
Or if you're going to end up at Starbucks, would it be better to have zero debt and a 6 year jump on the job or a college degree and owe $40,000?
Maybe you guys think the debt people graduating has is just something to sneeze at - but for many, this debt will last them for decades. And they'd better pay it because it's not going away easily if they don't - and it can hurt their credit rating for many years to come if they miss the payments.
As far as college debt is concerned, I think students should exhaust all other options prior to taking out a student loan (financial aid, scholarships, community college, cheaper state universities, etc). What I agree with you on is that students take out too much debt and do not choose their majors carefully. My assertion is this: If the graduate does not have a mountain of debt and has chosen a marketable major AND took advantage of work experience while in school, then they are better off than someone without a degree in terms of locating work.
I kind of like the idea of signing 2% of your salary to your college for the next 30 years or something. That way when you work, you pay, and when you don't work, you don't pay. No growing debt to worry about.
My point is that many trades which don't require an expensive college degree pay as well, and in many cases more, and don't require self-employment. I GUARANTEE that our lowest paid skilled tradesmen is making more than someone with a Bachelors in Psychology. For tahta matter they are making more than a teacher starts at around here, and 20 years from now they will still be making mroe than a teacher caps out at around here. All with the security of not getting a pink slip, and having a 401K and group health. Oh, and no student loans.
1. It's not all about money. The wisdom, intelligence, and overall growth as a person from a good college education shouldn't be taken for granted. The posters on here who never went to college but still choose to belittle the value of an education aren't able to understand how an education can enrich the quality of a person's life.
2. If you're purely interested in the financial aspect, we can talk about that as well. It seems like you are trying to get the point across that a person would be better off financially learning a trade as opposed to getting a degree. This is pretty misleading. Learning a trade may make it easier to land a very specific type of job, but it will not make you wealthy. Sure, you won't be in poverty, you may even be "comfortable", but in 99.99% of cases you will not become wealthy taking the tradesman route. I have a large amount of respect for tradesmen and do not look down upon them in anyway. But what you need to understand is that certain people yearn to have affluence in their lives, and trade school isn't going to get you there.
Im as proud of my degrees as the next person, but I do think the college education and job preparatory system is woefully dysfunctional, if not outright broken.
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NSX
1. It's not all about money. The wisdom, intelligence, and overall growth as a person from a good college education shouldn't be taken for granted. The posters on here who never went to college but still choose to belittle the value of an education aren't able to understand how an education can enrich the quality of a person's life.
2. If you're purely interested in the financial aspect, we can talk about that as well. It seems like you are trying to get the point across that a person would be better off financially learning a trade as opposed to getting a degree. This is pretty misleading. Learning a trade may make it easier to land a very specific type of job, but it will not make you wealthy. Sure, you won't be in poverty, you may even be "comfortable", but in 99.99% of cases you will not become wealthy taking the tradesman route. I have a large amount of respect for tradesmen and do not look down upon them in anyway. But what you need to understand is that certain people yearn to have affluence in their lives, and trade school isn't going to get you there.
Excellent points. I would like to add this regarding learning a trade. What happens when the trade becomes obsolete and this is the only training a person has? At least a college degree is more versatile than just a trade which pigeonhole people into certain professions and industries.
The wisdom, intelligence, and overall growth as a person from a good college education shouldn't be taken for granted.
It's not all about money.
Yes, it is. It is an investment. Ask any kid why they are in college. 99% will say they are there to get a piece of paper which will enable them to get a decent job. If you told those kids that said piece of paper will not lead to decent employment and they would be stuck with $50,000 in debt....how many would still enroll? NONE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NSX
The posters on here who never went to college but still choose to belittle the value of an education aren't able to understand how an education can enrich the quality of a person's life.
Maybe university enriched your life, but it did not do the same to mine. I was inundated with tons of busy work and Marxist essays by my uber-Left professors. Anything I learned there I could have learned for free in the library. What little I did learn I taught myself. It was an absolute waste of time for me. Now, that's not to say it would be a waste of time for everybody. But, I implore any young kid who is thinking of college to truly examine the implications of being tens of thousands of dollars in debt and how such a thing can destroy one's life.
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
39,031 posts, read 23,020,628 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwonderwhy2124
Yes, it is. It is an investment. Ask any kid why they are in college. 99% will say they are there to get a piece of paper which will enable them to get a decent job. If you told those kids that said piece of paper will not lead to decent employment and they would be stuck with $50,000 in debt....how many would still enroll? NONE.
Maybe university enriched your life, but it did not do the same to mine. I was inundated with tons of busy work and Marxist essays by my uber-Left professors. Anything I learned there I could have learned for free in the library. What little I did learn I taught myself. It was an absolute waste of time for me. Now, that's not to say it would be a waste of time for everybody. But, I implore any young kid who is thinking of college to truly examine the implications of being tens of thousands of dollars in debt and how such a thing can destroy one's life.
Going to college does not automatically equate to being "tens of thousands of dollars in debt" as there are alternative ways of finding higher education = financial aid, scholarships, work, community college, lower cost state universities, etc. I always encourage those who are in college or considering college to utilize loans only at the last resort.
Excellent points. I would like to add this regarding learning a trade. What happens when the trade becomes obsolete and this is the only training a person has? At least a college degree is more versatile than just a trade which pigeonhole people into certain professions and industries.
well then you would do what i have done. retool/retrain--- 3 times in my life-- in jr college-- the law of life, change or die. but it was debt free and low cost friend. unlike my poor MBA friends working fast food. all my education has been employment driven. my dream job. my chosen profession these slogans are now dead.
show me the money, "money" from earth wind and fire, sing it.
I have a 4-yr. degree & I don't feel as if it has done much good for me. It's not like my IQ jumped by double-digits once I received that piece of paper. Intelligence, natural ability, and work-ethic matter a lot more than a degree in most cases.
Professions such as engineering, medical, etc. do require university training, but for almost everything else, we should just go to an apprenticeship system. Apprenticeships are common in the trades, they are learning programs that last several years where one can earn while they learn. Your pay rate increases as you gain experience. What's nice about the trade I'm in is that you can just come right out of high school and be qualified. However, it is not easy, you have to pass a reading and math skills exam. Also, it's nice that you don't have to submit a resume, a cover letter, or any other bullsh1t like that. Things need to be done in a much more simplistic manner.
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