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Old 11-27-2012, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Gorgeous Scotland
4,095 posts, read 5,548,229 times
Reputation: 3351

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Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome View Post
Actually we live in the South East - a very high population density.
I'm sure if I lived in London I would be less impressed with the NHS. I lived for a short time in Herts but never needed any health care so can't comment.

 
Old 11-27-2012, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Gorgeous Scotland
4,095 posts, read 5,548,229 times
Reputation: 3351
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
I think this chart is interesting - it shows the percentage of US citizens who own passports, by state. As you can see, it varies widely, with Mississippi having the lowest percentage and many states with percentages over 60 percent. I think that the AVERAGE is over 30 percent now. Considering that traveling to another country for many Americans would take at least 24 hours of driving (and then you'd only be in Canada or Mexico), I think that's a pretty decent percentage. Hell, I live in Texas and though I've traveled throughout most of the world (and yes, I have a passport!), I haven't even been to Mexico and actually have ZERO interest in going there.

As for the attitude about "We're the greatest country on earth," keep in mind that for the majority of Americans, our ancestors (or even this current generation) moved here to GET AWAY FROM other countries - unlike the majority of the population of other countries. This can't help but shape attitudes, even several generations down the line.
There are thousands of reasons why people emigrated to the US. Many of the Irish left during the potato famine because they were starving and the British who were supposed to help them didn't give a sh*t. Many left Scotland because of the Highland Clearances where greedy landowners kicked them off their crofts to make more money with sheep. So they didn't leave because they hated where they lived. They left due to intolerable circumstances in the countries they loved.

The Mayflower pilgrims left because England couldn't tolerate their totally weird religion.
 
Old 11-27-2012, 01:11 PM
 
Location: WA
1,442 posts, read 1,940,364 times
Reputation: 1517
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
As for the attitude about "We're the greatest country on earth," keep in mind that for the majority of Americans, our ancestors (or even this current generation) moved here to GET AWAY FROM other countries - unlike the majority of the population of other countries. This can't help but shape attitudes, even several generations down the line.
Great point here, Kathryn. The incredibly dismal knowledge that the most opinionated outside critics tend to have about the U.S. (mostly in terms of history and sociology) would certainly have something to do with the fact that the (sometimes bizarre) patriotic attitudes of Americans are rarely discussed in terms of historical origin, which inevitably results in faulty, ignorant and biased theories as to why many Americans think that way.

That being said, my post should not be interpreted as a defense of witless, knee-jerk patriotism, contrary to what I'll likely be accused of by other posters on this thread; however, perhaps it should be known that in my case, I'm extremely reluctant to level with foreign critics of my country and the society of which I'm a part for the simple fact that outsider critiques so often serve no other purpose than self-aggrandizement for the critic in question.

For as long as I've been politically aware, I've always found the "We're the greatest country on earth" sentiment held by many Americans to be very distasteful, and yes, really quite embarrassing. I positively love this country's history, multiculturalism, political traditions, institutions, economic successes, etc., but I've personally never felt the need to demonstrate it via flags and bumper-stickers, "God Bless America," etc. (no, I'm not saying that flags, bumper stickers and "God Bless America" are bad, but it takes a lot more than flags, bumper stickers and song recitation to demonstrate respectable patriotism).

But here's the thing: I don't believe that there's any such thing as "respectable patriotism" in any American context where the U.S.'s foreign critics are concerned (Europeans, however, usually seem to tolerate instances where Americans demand thorough emulation of every European social and economic model you can can possibly fathom, which, I suppose, is probably the only acceptable form of American patriotism in their minds). If an American doesn't venemously trash their country and their countrymen to at least some extent and instead opts to provide defense, then, according to outsider wisdom, they must be overly-patriotic (if not irreparably brainwashed) to one degree or another. Basically, Americans can do nothing right aside from agreeing with every skewed observation these people make.

So yeah, I guess that concludes my random spiel.
 
Old 11-27-2012, 01:33 PM
 
Location: Gorgeous Scotland
4,095 posts, read 5,548,229 times
Reputation: 3351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Bach View Post
Over my head is the flight path of medical helicopters. They fly slow and steady. I wondered why they did not go faster. I figured out each of these aircraft are a flying operating room..where hospital care can be fully given while the person is in transport...It's expensive and we have had some scandal regarding these medical choppers...but it is amazing..Other nations if you are smashed to bits in an accident you are dumped on the side of the road like a dog...In and around Toronto there spare no expense to save a life. I had seen one of these in action a while back...a couple of Asian tourists had decided to test drive a car. The dealership was across the road from my house...They pulled out and where broad sided...The blood flowed like a river...within 5 minutes a helicopter landed on the highway and took them away...saving their lives...THAT is the difference between America and Canada....Medicine and health care is profit driven but not TOTALLY profit driven..
Yes, and the UK. And every other developed country.
 
Old 11-27-2012, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,650 posts, read 60,959,349 times
Reputation: 101088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ameriscot View Post
There are thousands of reasons why people emigrated to the US. Many of the Irish left during the potato famine because they were starving and the British who were supposed to help them didn't give a sh*t. Many left Scotland because of the Highland Clearances where greedy landowners kicked them off their crofts to make more money with sheep. So they didn't leave because they hated where they lived. They left due to intolerable circumstances in the countries they loved.

The Mayflower pilgrims left because England couldn't tolerate their totally weird religion.
Agreed.

Please note that I didn't say they left their homelands because they hated their countries of origin. As you said, many of them were fleeing intolerable conditions in their homeland. They moved to a land that offered them more options and more potential for a better life.

Most immigrants to America (eventually the US), with of course the obvious exclusion of slaves, embraced their new home with a fervor, and passed that love and appreciation on to their children, and their children's children. This legacy of deep appreciation is very prevalent to this day.
 
Old 11-27-2012, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Gorgeous Scotland
4,095 posts, read 5,548,229 times
Reputation: 3351
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
Agreed.

Please note that I didn't say they left their homelands because they hated their countries of origin. As you said, many of them were fleeing intolerable conditions in their homeland. They moved to a land that offered them more options and more potential for a better life.

Most immigrants to America (eventually the US), with of course the obvious exclusion of slaves, embraced their new home with a fervor, and passed that love and appreciation on to their children, and their children's children. This legacy of deep appreciation is very prevalent to this day.
Very true. It's a shame that what it says on the statue of liberty is now just something that sounds nice but is no longer true.
 
Old 11-27-2012, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,650 posts, read 60,959,349 times
Reputation: 101088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob702 View Post
I often hear this argument as an excuse for Americans not knowing much about the outside world. They say that the US is so huge that one could travel his whole life without having seen everything (agreed on that btw), so there's no need to travel abroad. Then they say it can't be compared to "teeny-weeny Europe" where you could hop on a train and be in 5 different countries within 10 hrs. Why not compare yourself to other big countries? I bet Canadians or Australians are much more well-traveled than Americans. Despite being at least as far away from another country as the US.
30 percent of Americans have a passport. Considering that our only shared borders are Canada and Mexico, and considering that many Americans have very little interest in either of those places, I'd say that's not so bad. I mean, how many Europeans have much interest in visiting Canada or Mexico?

I'll tell you!

In 2007, Americans made 303,735,000 trips to Canada. All other nationalities combined made only 46,789,000 trips to Canada in comparison.
Canada at a Glance 2008 - Travel

For Mexico, 67 percent of tourists come from the US.
Tourism and travel facts in Mexico, information on Mexico's tourism situation - Explorando Mexico

Come on, world - why aren't you visiting Canada and Mexico more? Don't you find them interesting enough? Aren't you just chomping at the bit to visit these two places out of the ENTIRE WORLD?

I have lived in Europe and Japan. It's a LOT easier to visit other countries when they are close by -it's really not that hard to understand. When I lived in Europe, it was not at all unusual for me to visit France one weekend, and Poland the next. Heck, last year on our trip through Europe, we traveled through five countries in ten days - and four of those we traveled through in ONE day of leisurely driving (Belgium, France, Luxembourg, and Germany). From here in the US, I couldn't possibly drive through five countries in ten days.

Also, as you pointed out, there is simply so much to see and do (at a better price) in the US that US citizens could literally never see it all. Travel in the US for a US citizen can be very, very economical as well. Then you factor in that in general we get only 2-4 weeks of vacation a year, and there are so many interesting places in our OWN country to visit in our rather limited time, and there you have it.

Less than 3 percent of Australians traveled internationally from March 2011 thru March 2012. Their most popular destination was (imagine this!) right next door - to New Zealand, closely followed by Indonesia. Only ten percent of Australian international travelers visited the US and only six percent visited the UK. Seven percent visited Thailand.
http://www.ret.gov.au/tourism/Docume...arter_2012.pdf

The vast majority of Canadians travel to the US (surprise - right across their border!) when traveling internationally.
Travel by Canadians to foreign countries, top 15 countries visited

Per this interesting article:
The top five countries visited by U.S. residents in 2011, were: Mexico (20.1 million), Canada
(11.6 million), the United Kingdom (2.4 million), France (1.8 million) and Italy (1.7 million).
http://tinet.ita.doc.gov/outreachpag...d_Analysis.pdf
 
Old 11-27-2012, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Gorgeous Scotland
4,095 posts, read 5,548,229 times
Reputation: 3351
There is also another reason why many Americans don't travel abroad and isn't often mentioned. They get a lot less holiday/vacation time than those in other countries. Many people only get 2 weeks a year and some only a week. To do a proper trip abroad you need a minimum of 2 weeks and that uses up all the time you might split up for domestic trips and trips to see family, etc.

Also the dollar isn't worth much when you convert it to other currencies. It's $900-1,000 just for a flight to Europe from the eastern US. And if you have a family....
 
Old 11-27-2012, 04:26 PM
 
Location: M I N N E S O T A
14,773 posts, read 21,507,739 times
Reputation: 9263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ameriscot View Post
There is also another reason why many Americans don't travel abroad and isn't often mentioned. They get a lot less holiday/vacation time than those in other countries. Many people only get 2 weeks a year and some only a week. To do a proper trip abroad you need a minimum of 2 weeks and that uses up all the time you might split up for domestic trips and trips to see family, etc.

Also the dollar isn't worth much when you convert it to other currencies. It's $900-1,000 just for a flight to Europe from the eastern US. And if you have a family....

Yea people would rather go on a cross country road trip than go to some other country, i dont see why its a bad thing that people don't travel abroad.

The people i know who do travel abroad usually go to some random city in Europe or go to Mexico. Whats strange is even though we border Canada, it seems like more people go to Mexico.
 
Old 11-27-2012, 04:48 PM
 
25,021 posts, read 27,942,602 times
Reputation: 11790
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
30 percent of Americans have a passport. Considering that our only shared borders are Canada and Mexico, and considering that many Americans have very little interest in either of those places, I'd say that's not so bad. I mean, how many Europeans have much interest in visiting Canada or Mexico?

I'll tell you!

In 2007, Americans made 303,735,000 trips to Canada. All other nationalities combined made only 46,789,000 trips to Canada in comparison.
Canada at a Glance 2008 - Travel

For Mexico, 67 percent of tourists come from the US.
Tourism and travel facts in Mexico, information on Mexico's tourism situation - Explorando Mexico

Come on, world - why aren't you visiting Canada and Mexico more? Don't you find them interesting enough? Aren't you just chomping at the bit to visit these two places out of the ENTIRE WORLD?

I have lived in Europe and Japan. It's a LOT easier to visit other countries when they are close by -it's really not that hard to understand. When I lived in Europe, it was not at all unusual for me to visit France one weekend, and Poland the next. Heck, last year on our trip through Europe, we traveled through five countries in ten days - and four of those we traveled through in ONE day of leisurely driving (Belgium, France, Luxembourg, and Germany). From here in the US, I couldn't possibly drive through five countries in ten days.

Also, as you pointed out, there is simply so much to see and do (at a better price) in the US that US citizens could literally never see it all. Travel in the US for a US citizen can be very, very economical as well. Then you factor in that in general we get only 2-4 weeks of vacation a year, and there are so many interesting places in our OWN country to visit in our rather limited time, and there you have it.

Less than 3 percent of Australians traveled internationally from March 2011 thru March 2012. Their most popular destination was (imagine this!) right next door - to New Zealand, closely followed by Indonesia. Only ten percent of Australian international travelers visited the US and only six percent visited the UK. Seven percent visited Thailand.
http://www.ret.gov.au/tourism/Docume...arter_2012.pdf

The vast majority of Canadians travel to the US (surprise - right across their border!) when traveling internationally.
Travel by Canadians to foreign countries, top 15 countries visited

Per this interesting article:
The top five countries visited by U.S. residents in 2011, were: Mexico (20.1 million), Canada
(11.6 million), the United Kingdom (2.4 million), France (1.8 million) and Italy (1.7 million).
http://tinet.ita.doc.gov/outreachpag...d_Analysis.pdf
Looks like foreigners are not as well traveled as people like to make them out to be the truth of the matter is, the overall vast majority of the world has never been outside of their national borders, much less their country's political subdivision.
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