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Some classify the Indo-Iranian group as one branch, and Indo-Euro as another branch off the same root. I was leaving that issue open.
At any rate it is close enough to the languages in Europe that it has cognates with Germanic and Romance languages.
The alphabet needs slightly more explanation (I skimmed this so I may have missed this if someone else caught it earlier). They use the same base alphabet (along with Urdu, Somali, Kurdi, Pashto, ...), but there are a few letters different. For example Arabic lacks the b or p sound while Farsi and Dari have it. Arabic also uses some explanatory marks to indicate vowel sounds (whose letters aren't always written in either language thus making it an abjad or some such instead of a true alphabet; seriously wikipedia it), which largely isn't the case in Farsi or Dari other than some terms related to Islam which were taken from Arabic. It's like English and Spanish using the same base Roman letters, but the alphabets are slightly different.
On a side note while the Iranian government has recently been pushing for the language to be called Persian Farsi is the letter for letter translation from Farsi to English, and it is the term traditionally used in English to refer to the language in Iran. Dari has been the term Afghans have pushed since the 30s or so for their dialect of the language. To further complicate matters the language is spoken in Tajikstan, but the Tajiks write it using the Cyrilic alphabet (like the Russians use).
At any rate it is close enough to the languages in Europe that it has cognates with Germanic and Romance languages.
The alphabet needs slightly more explanation (I skimmed this so I may have missed this if someone else caught it earlier). They use the same base alphabet (along with Urdu, Somali, Kurdi, Pashto, ...), but there are a few letters different. For example Arabic lacks the b or p sound while Farsi and Dari have it. Arabic also uses some explanatory marks to indicate vowel sounds (whose letters aren't always written in either language thus making it an abjad or some such instead of a true alphabet; seriously wikipedia it), which largely isn't the case in Farsi or Dari other than some terms related to Islam which were taken from Arabic. It's like English and Spanish using the same base Roman letters, but the alphabets are slightly different.
To further complicate matters the language is spoken in Tajikstan, but the Tajiks write it using the Cyrilic alphabet (like the Russians use).
Oh, that's not so complicated...
Central Asia ( Tajikistan, Uzbekistan) used to be part of Persian Empire long time ago ( as much as part of Afghanistan from what I remember,) but in Uzbekistan Persian language was ousted by Turkic language, while it remained in place in Tajikistan. Obviously after Russia took over the region, the original alphabet has been substituted by Cyrillic.
Just look at the map, how huge Persian Empire was back in history...)
Well complicated in that Farsi, Dari, and Tajik are mutually intellible, but use three different names and two alphabets (also when a word ends in what in English would be called a long e sound it seems like most Dari speakers use the form of the letter that is used in Pashto whereas Farsi uses its own, but that may just be something I'm imagining based on my limited knowledge of the langauge). It's a bit like parsing American, Australian, and British English into three languages, and the Aussies deciding they'll write the language using the Hebrew alphabet instead of the Roman one.
Well complicated in that Farsi, Dari, and Tajik are mutually intellible, but use three different names and two alphabets (also when a word ends in what in English would be called a long e sound it seems like most Dari speakers use the form of the letter that is used in Pashto whereas Farsi uses its own, but that may just be something I'm imagining based on my limited knowledge of the langauge). It's a bit like parsing American, Australian, and British English into three languages, and the Aussies deciding they'll write the language using the Hebrew alphabet instead of the Roman one.
Well, from what I understand originally all three were spoken in the same country and it was one and the same language back in history ( may be with small variations, - dialects sort of, depending on the area.) Then the country has been broken apart, different parts of it went its separate ways, accepting the new rulers/conquerors of different ethnicity who dictated how from now on they wanted the original Persian language to be spelled; ( in Arabic in case of Iran and in Cyrillic in case of Tajikistan for example.)
I mean it says right there;
Caught some jackasses making wise cracks about me at the corner store.
Asked them what language they were speaking in, obviously making fun of me, they said 'French' .... hilarity ensued. For them.
I spoke back to them, in their native tongue, like I was hawking a loogie, "Awaka "Hawka Waka socka...Aika"...and they finally said 'Arabic'.
'Oh, Persia?' I replied.
One said , 'Yes.'
The other said, 'No, there is a difference.'
My question:
What is that difference?
Thanks.
Sounds like a wonderful conversation. I wish I could have been there.
Maybe after your insulting behavior, they were ashamed to say they were American.
My 'insulting behavior' was paying for a beer. Nothing more.
And, I was smiling the whole time. I look scruffy enough as is it.
Do I deserve ridicule for that? Paying customer? Just trying to purchase something?
Always polite?
They were obviously having a good time, at my expense. Laughing it up.
Maybe you should be there with me next time, and see what actually happens.
Before commenting.
Food for thought.
Last edited by FaceInTheCrowd; 12-14-2012 at 12:54 AM..
Sounds like a wonderful conversation. I wish I could have been there.
They were definitely surprised, and I loved the look on their faces.
"Eek" ...about sums it up. Wish I spoke 'Arabic' , that would've really suprised the hell out of them! If you hate Americans, and English, go back to your country / caves MF'ers.
You came here for a reason...assimilate.
And, I'm a happy GD customer, always smiling my butt off, trying to be nice.
look scroungy enough, gotta convince people I'm actually the nice guy.
A smile never hurt anyone, or just decent politeness.
...no matter how bad you feel or look.
Linguistically, Persian is part of the Indo-European family of languages, so its kin to languages like English and Latin.
Semitic is part of the Afro-asiatic/Afrasian family of languages, so its kin to language groups like Tamazight (Berber) or Coptic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure
There is no confusion, really.
Persia ( that initially has got nothing to do with Arabs OR their language) has been conquered by Arabs and submitted under Islam. Under Islam Arabic language considered superior, it's a "true language of Islam."
Before Persians were conquered by Arabs, they've had their own language called "pahlavi" - spoken and written, their own poetry and literature. After the conquest their written language accepted Arabic alphabet.
So because the population - (the conquerors and the conquered, Arabs and Persians) became mixed through the history, it became a complicated matter. But look at it this way - Iranians who consider Islam one of the greatest things that happened to them, probably don't think about their "Persian identity" too much. The ones who consider themselves "Persians" think that Arabs destroyed their original culture and don't like Arabs.
But originally Arabs and Persians were two completely different people with completely different history, religion and languages.
( Hope this helps somewhat.)
PS. The original religion of Persia was Zoroastrianism, which is closer related to religions of India, and that was actually predecessor of Christianity.
Pretty good summary.
By the way, a lot of what is considered "Arabic culture" was heavily influenced by peoples and cultures that were not of Arabian peninsula origin.
Those interested might want to check out Shu'ubiyya.
Well, from what I understand originally all three were spoken in the same country and it was one and the same language back in history ( may be with small variations, - dialects sort of, depending on the area.) Then the country has been broken apart, different parts of it went its separate ways, accepting the new rulers/conquerors of different ethnicity who dictated how from now on they wanted the original Persian language to be spelled; ( in Arabic in case of Iran and in Cyrillic in case of Tajikistan for example.)
The languages of Persia and India and most European languages have a common root, which is the origin of all Indo-European languages. Arabic is not,it's a Semitic language, which means Persian is much more closely related to English, Swedish and Spanish, than to Arabic, whose only living relatives are Hebrew and the languages of Ethiopia.
See the confusion? See it??
no wonder one said, 'Yes!' ...and the other said,'No!'
At the same GD time. Even they don't know...
Oh, I'm gonna have FUN next time I walk in that store!
What confusion are you talking about?
Also, why would you go out of your way to try for another confrontation? I don't understand the point of it.
And do you get super pissed when someone of Irish ancestry in the US says they're Irish? Same with Italian, Dutch, Polish, etc.?
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If you hate Americans, and English, go back to your country / caves MF'ers.
