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Old 12-25-2013, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Auburn, New York
1,772 posts, read 3,522,370 times
Reputation: 3076

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How do we define white?

Personally, I'd consider Iran and Turkey to be 99% white. I don't understand how Persians and Turks cannot be white. They identify as white. Physically they're no more dark than Italians, Albanians, and Greeks. The US Census considers Middle Eastern and North Africans as being white.

Latin America and the Caribbean use a different criteria for whiteness compared to the US. I have a friend from Peru who identifies as white in Peru, but as a person of color here in the United States. When listing counties by whiteness should we use our definitions of the term or theirs?

What do you do with Argentina, where 95% of the population self-identifies as white, but yet it's estimated that 25-40 percent of the population has at least a drop of indigenous blood but are not aware of it?

Likewise, what about many areas of Siberia and Kazakhstan where there is a wide spectrum between people who look European and those who look East Asian? Are all of these people white? None of them? Where do you draw the line?

 
Old 12-25-2013, 12:52 PM
 
3,452 posts, read 4,929,935 times
Reputation: 6229
Quote:
Originally Posted by colinrhar View Post
Since Europeans are native to Austria.. we can assume that non Euro population has come (all) by immigration, and using that released + Fertility rates ... you can find out the population of a group!!! Actually, all of the surveys on ethnicities in Austria matches our data (+ or - 2% , sometimes).

France and Finland don't ask for ethnicity or race, but they do for nationality too! So pairing upother info gives you the best statitics.
Um What?
If John Wong born of Chinese parents was born in Vienna, he would be Austrian but not white. Your theory falls apart when you consider there are plenty of Europeans born in Europe who aren't white. Or are you insinuating that you can't be European unless white? That is racist.
 
Old 12-25-2013, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Leeds, UK
22,112 posts, read 29,597,650 times
Reputation: 8819
England is 85.4% 'White', 79.8% 'White British'. I presume you're referring to the UK as a whole, which is indeed is 87.1% 'White'. Here's an interesting question for you to ponder - why do you care? Is demography simply a past time for you, or are you trying to prove a point?
 
Old 12-25-2013, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Amherst, mA
53 posts, read 184,523 times
Reputation: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic_gardener View Post
Um What?
If John Wong born of Chinese parents was born in Vienna, he would be Austrian but not white. Your theory falls apart when you consider there are plenty of Europeans born in Europe who aren't white. Or are you insinuating that you can't be European unless white? That is racist.


There was an estimated of 0 European of colored descent in year 100. Since then we have calculated the immigration rates, estimates, and other rational estimates of fertility into our equations. So you are actually being racist of using "Jong Wong" as a Chinese name. Because I know many Chinese people named "Tim Horton". And in John Wong's case, his ancestry is Chinese and factored into fertility. But, as I can tell, you are a little too immature to deal with these types of figures a you suppose people are "racist and intolerant" because its not what you want.

Last edited by Rozenn; 12-25-2013 at 04:00 PM.. Reason: Rude
 
Old 12-25-2013, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Amherst, mA
53 posts, read 184,523 times
Reputation: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunno what to put here View Post
England is 85.4% 'White', 79.8% 'White British'. Here's an interesting question for you to ponder - why do you care?
England is 84% white. (2013 est)
Scotland is 95% white.
N.I. is 98% White
Wales is 93% White

Therefore, UK is ~87% white

I care because I am a demographer, looking to make some extra money by posting my studies to the public websites.

Last edited by Rozenn; 12-25-2013 at 04:00 PM.. Reason: Rude
 
Old 12-25-2013, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Amherst, mA
53 posts, read 184,523 times
Reputation: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn.Davenport View Post
How do we define white?

Personally, I'd consider Iran and Turkey to be 99% white. I don't understand how Persians and Turks cannot be white. They identify as white. Physically they're no more dark than Italians, Albanians, and Greeks. The US Census considers Middle Eastern and North Africans as being white.

Latin America and the Caribbean use a different criteria for whiteness compared to the US. I have a friend from Peru who identifies as white in Peru, but as a person of color here in the United States. When listing counties by whiteness should we use our definitions of the term or theirs?

What do you do with Argentina, where 95% of the population self-identifies as white, but yet it's estimated that 25-40 percent of the population has at least a drop of indigenous blood but are not aware of it?

Likewise, what about many areas of Siberia and Kazakhstan where there is a wide spectrum between people who look European and those who look East Asian? Are all of these people white? None of them? Where do you draw the line?
If you read my post more carefully, I wrote European origin. Iran s an Arab + Middle Eastern Country which I said, does not count. And furthermore, Argentina's example of White can be oover 50%% white, but set my settings and drew my line at 75% white.

And for countries other than USA, Canada, UK, Australia, NZ, Ireland, and Brazil ... I used EUROPEAN ORIGIN .. not white. White would not make sense in the Arabian/ME part of the world.

Did not use Kazakhstan, so I cannot tell.... nor did I do Siberia individually from Russia.

And in the Carribean I use EUROPEAN origin.. For Example: Puerto Rico is 99% White.. but is only 0.6% European; Non Hispanic White. And again, Hispanics are not counted in my data because they are not European (wholely, majority).

And again for Argentina, 88% are above 75% European, and that is where I drew my line. It s also estimated that 75% of the USA, has a drop of Native blood... but we count them as white, right?
 
Old 12-25-2013, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Amherst, mA
53 posts, read 184,523 times
Reputation: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
What are the sources?

28,074 foreigners have got a Finnish nationality in the last 5 years. We know for sure that Finland has received 11,192 humanitarian refugees during the last 5 years. We also know for sure that there is 25,895 people living here with an African passport. We know that there's 5,728 people who's nationality "cannot be determined" (boat refugees). I also know for sure 3 black persons who hold only a Finnish passport. In 2012 there was 8272 people holding only a Chinese passport. Are these considered white?

All these facts I got in 2 minutes makes your number impossible. There's also around 10,000 Roma in Finland holding either Finnish or Swedish passport, which makes the number even larger.

Immigrants with a the mother having a dual nationality eg Congolese/Finnish, their children appear only as Finnish in statistics. All persons that have been adopted, like my friend from Africa, are only Finnish, despite being black.

There's 52,339 people living here that came with an USSR passport. So they can be Khazak, Kyrgyz, Tuvan, Nenets or other that hardly can be considered "white".

About Finland, 8727 hold a Chinese passport. but most do not hold Finnish citizenship. Most of the migrants to Finland from he USSR are ethnically Belarussian, Ukrainian, and Russian. Actually there are over 15,000 Ethnically African Finns in Finland. Most Africans are whites from Southern Africa or Ethnic Somolians ... and furthermore, we conducted that roughly 75-80% of immigrants to Finland are European origin. Thanks!

From a professional Demographic standpoint, ive counted 32,000 non white Finns.. or 0.6%. So a study and let me know!
 
Old 12-25-2013, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Amherst, mA
53 posts, read 184,523 times
Reputation: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
What are the sources?

28,074 foreigners have got a Finnish nationality in the last 5 years. We know for sure that Finland has received 11,192 humanitarian refugees during the last 5 years. We also know for sure that there is 25,895 people living here with an African passport. We know that there's 5,728 people who's nationality "cannot be determined" (boat refugees). I also know for sure 3 black persons who hold only a Finnish passport. In 2012 there was 8272 people holding only a Chinese passport. Are these considered white?

All these facts I got in 2 minutes makes your number impossible. There's also around 10,000 Roma in Finland holding either Finnish or Swedish passport, which makes the number even larger.

Immigrants with a the mother having a dual nationality eg Congolese/Finnish, their children appear only as Finnish in statistics. All persons that have been adopted, like my friend from Africa, are only Finnish, despite being black.

There's 52,339 people living here that came with an USSR passport. So they can be Khazak, Kyrgyz, Tuvan, Nenets or other that hardly can be considered "white".
Actually theres over 58,000 USSR Finns, in 2013 (est). 42,000 are ethnic Russians (Europeans) and 9,000 are Ukrainians. (Also 4,000 Belarussians)
 
Old 12-25-2013, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Hong Kong / Vienna
4,491 posts, read 6,347,329 times
Reputation: 3986
Quote:
Originally Posted by colinrhar View Post
And, actually Austria collects an optional source of ethnicity, where only 3% declined to answer.
Do you care to elaborate about which document you are talking?

It wasn't the one from the census in 2001, that's for sure. And I certainly wasn't asked about my ethnic background when I registered in Vienna.

The only document I know that asks something like that is this one:
http://www.unhcr.at/fileadmin/unhcr_...lage_A-eng.pdf
 
Old 12-25-2013, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Amherst, mA
53 posts, read 184,523 times
Reputation: 54
If 12% of Austria is foreign born, and 40% are Non European, with Non Europeans numbering 105,000 born in Austria... you put 2 and 2 together. That's great you brought out the censes, can't read it.

Now can you find me a source that shows Austria Above 96% European or below 93% European.

I have 39 sources, email me, and you'll have them.
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