Do Americans' definitions of ethnic diversity differ from those of other nations? (school, rating)
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To be fair immigrants (or descendants of non-Anglo immigrants) can be racist to. The most racist person i've ever met was funnily an American of Italian descent, who ranted about 'Jews, n****rs, f*gs.etc' for a few minutes...I've never heard such a vitriolic tirade from an Australian. Should I conclude from this example that Americans are racist?
I was just thinking about how American categories of race and ethnicity are pretty broad.
They are white, black, Asian, Hispanic. These are typically the government categories and they are everywhere. They seem like stock categories that are pretty rigid in people's minds. I find people try to box people into these broad categories too much.
For a nation of immigrants and settlers, you would expect more nuanced categories on ethnic diversity. When people argue about diversity in the US, there is too much emphasis only on how many people as a percent are non-white. Almost every talking point is how many non-whites are there? How many blacks? How many Hispanics? How many Asians etc.
But there is so much more than that. A Nigerian is so much culturally different from a Somalian or Afro-Jamaican. An Indian Parsi is so much different from a Chinese Singaporean. Some people around city-data who are Canadians even mentioned Canadians have a more nuanced definition of diversity in ethnicity where culture is taken into account. Something I've heard too is that say a French-speaking Haitian is seen as more in common with a white French-Canadian while English-speaking Jamaicans have more in common with Anglo-Canadians, it's claimed, because there language is the main divider, not race. Doesn't language and culture trump physical appearance or at least sometimes?
Technically ethnicity takes into account culture, while race refers to appearance based on ancestry but other than Hispanics being Spanish speaking or having roots from Spanish colonies, few of the US race/ethnicity categories take into account cultural ties (eg. blacks are seen as just one group in the US regardless of culture or continent of origin, but Brits distinguish on their census Caribbean blacks and African blacks).
How are other country's ideas of ethnicity categories, like, or at least perceptions thereof?
Race and ethnicity are not well understood in the US. Many people even use the two terms, along with nationality interchangeably not knowing these words are not synonyms. The US has always been race based, not ethnic based although in more recent times, that has begun to change a bit. Cajuns are now recognized as an ethnic group. Black Caribbeans still aren't but perhaps they should be.
Hispanic is one that can get you into trouble. Mexicans, this includes those many call Mexican-Americans, do not like the term Hispanic. This term lumps people together from the Spanish speaking world who often only have language in common but little else. Mexicans, both immigrants and US born prefer the term "Mexican". To them it isn't just a nationality. It identifies them culturally. Basically they use it like an ethnic term despite the fact that Mexican isn't recognized in the US as an ethnicity, perhaps one day it might.
I think it's kept this way largely because to break it down would make a bewilderingly long list. just from the two regions in California I've lived in, right of the top of my head I can name the following:
Race and ethnicity are not well understood in the US. Many people even use the two terms, along with nationality interchangeably not knowing these words are not synonyms. The US has always been race based, not ethnic based although in more recent times, that has begun to change a bit. Cajuns are now recognized as an ethnic group. Black Caribbeans still aren't but perhaps they should be.
Hispanic is one that can get you into trouble. Mexicans, this includes those many call Mexican-Americans, do not like the term Hispanic. This term lumps people together from the Spanish speaking world who often only have language in common but little else. Mexicans, both immigrants and US born prefer the term "Mexican". To them it isn't just a nationality. It identifies them culturally. Basically they use it like an ethnic term despite the fact that Mexican isn't recognized in the US as an ethnicity, perhaps one day it might.
I think it's kept this way largely because to break it down would make a bewilderingly long list. just from the two regions in California I've lived in, right of the top of my head I can name the following:
Native Americans:
Too many to name. Some are extinct.
This is just pulled out of the air for California only. It would be very frustrating trying to break this down for the entire country.
Many of the Hispanics you name are also Black, not to mention the possibility of them being White, Asian, native American or some combination of the above.
Many of the Hispanics you name are also Black, not to mention the possibility of them being White, Asian, native American or some combination of the above.
Classic example of confusing race with ethnicity. I was specifically speaking about ethnicity, not race.
Classic example of confusing race with ethnicity. I was specifically speaking about ethnicity, not race.
I'm not confusing anything. You mention racial groups and have people grouped into different categories. If you want to do that, you cannot have any Hispanic group in your same list of racial categories.
I'm not confusing anything. You mention racial groups and have people grouped into different categories. If you want to do that, you cannot have any Hispanic group in your same list of racial categories.
You obviously do not understand what's happening here.
It was mentioned that America is a race based country rather than an ethnic based one. It was also mentioned early in the thread (if you read it) that ethnicity based on language and culture is a better way to group people rather than by racial groups based on skin color so I didn't think I'd find myself explaining this. Therefore, I broke down the racial categories as they are generally used in the US and identified the ethnic groups that those broad racial categories cover. Because of that, there will be some overlap. Two people with the same skin color are not always the same ethnicity. Therefore I can include Hispanic because HISPANIC IS NOT A RACE! Hispanic is and ethnic term created mainly in the US to describe Spanish speaking people irrespective of their race, nationality or ethnicity.
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^ I see what you mean, and that's actually a very important distinction, that the U.S. does have a remarkable array of "cultures", which easily transcend patterns of 'race' and 'ethnicity'. For example good luck trying to find much in common between asians in NYC's Chinatown, and asians in Silicon Valley. And even though they're both "hispanic", there are huge cultural (and political) differences between, say, Mexican- and Cuban-Americans. So big deal, Canada has the French… but even they wanna have their own country, instead of 'diversity'!
You obviously do not understand what's happening here.
It was mentioned that America is a race based country rather than an ethnic based one. It was also mentioned early in the thread (if you read it) that ethnicity based on language and culture is a better way to group people rather than by racial groups based on skin color so I didn't think I'd find myself explaining this. Therefore, I broke down the racial categories as they are generally used in the US and identified the ethnic groups that those broad racial categories cover. Because of that, there will be some overlap. Two people with the same skin color are not always the same ethnicity. Therefore I can include Hispanic because HISPANIC IS NOT A RACE! Hispanic is and ethnic term created mainly in the US to describe Spanish speaking people irrespective of their race, nationality or ethnicity.
OK, whatever. I know that Hispanic is not a race, because I am a Hispanic - a Hispanic who is black.
^ I see what you mean, and that's actually a very important distinction, that the U.S. does have a remarkable array of "cultures", which easily transcend patterns of 'race' and 'ethnicity'. For example good luck trying to find much in common between asians in NYC's Chinatown, and asians in Silicon Valley. And even though they're both "hispanic", there are huge cultural (and political) differences between, say, Mexican- and Cuban-Americans. So big deal, Canada has the French… but even they wanna have their own country, instead of 'diversity'!
At least you get it. There are even differences between the different Chinese in the Bay Area. Those in Silicon Valley are mainly Mandarin where as those in San Francisco and Oakland are Cantonese. These two groups are as different as any two groups can be and they are both considered Chinese! Diversity in the US is staggering especially among languages. Just in California alone:
Quote:
Over 200 languages are known to be spoken and read in California, with Spanish used as the state's "alternative" language. California has more than 100 indigenous languages, making California one of the most linguistically diverse areas in the world.
This is just one state. If the entire country's numbers were given this number would be much much higher. If this isn't diversity then diversity simply doesn't exist.
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Exactly, and countries like Canada and Australia are also pretty 'new' at 'diversity' anyway, so it's still a "big deal" for them, with plenty of "atta boys" along the way… simply because they've recently managed to cope with a large influx of "furiners" (who BTW have been a huge improvement on the typically bland Brit. cooking)! When in fact the history of the U.S. is almost entirely made up of one huge wave of immigrants after another…. "give us your poor and huddled masses" indeed!?!
And naturally bragging about 'diversity' is always lots easier when you have the luxury of way less population density than the U.S., or even most other countries. But start pushing 'em closer together, and let's hear about your vaunted "diversity" then!
Which reminds me of traveling around British Columbia shortly after 9/11, when even in 'cosmopolitan' Vancouver, the anti-muslim sentiment there was so common (and so nasty), that it woulda made any 'xenophobe' proud!
Last edited by mateo45; 01-30-2014 at 05:36 PM..
Reason: spell
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