social security in Europe vs US (low income, to rent, health insurance)

[transientsalmon]

I'm working on a letter to the social security admin in US and I want to point out that being well adjusted to a competitive society is not a measure of health, and that European countries have a more expansive system of social security/welfare that makes it less difficult to get sorted out with things like housing and stuff, especially for a person who doesn't necessarily have a job or plans to obtain one, and that the US is not up to par in their social security.

So I don't know how it all works there, but maybe some people could point out whether it is typically easy and common to get help from the government for basic needs like housing and food and stuff without necessarily having employment, or just generally being a lazy chap. From what I've seen and read, it seems like its more commonplace to head to the local office and get sorted out with stuff and its not as much of a conundrum, and an honest lad who doesn't necessarily have a role in the workplace or plans in motion could get some assistance simply because he is alive with the sound of music

[cattledog69]

Well let me tell you first it doesn't work that way lol. It's not like if you feel lazy and don't want to work you just head for the office and get "sorted out" with a pay check and a house. Sorry but I get the impression that a lot of Americans think that.

When people leave home, they're expected to work. Most already have a job when they leave or are still studying and get a job after that. Only when you've worked for a certain amount of time and only if you got fired you have a right to welfare money. If you quit your job voluntarily, or caused your boss to fire you (stealing, fighting, not showing up etc), tough luck, no money for you.
When that happens, you get for a certain time (one month for every year you worked) 70% of your last earned income and after that, like a € 900,- pay a month to live on. If you own a house and can't afford that on that pay, you'd have to sell it.
After that, it's not like the government "sorts you out with a house" either. That € 900,- pay check is what you have to rent a house with, and it's up to you to find one that's affordable on that pay, mostly social housing, and if you don't succeed in finding one you can get help with that. And, because you have such low income you have a right for "rent subsidies" to support you with the rent which is maybe a € 100,- a month (using rough numbers now).
You'd also have to pay your own health insurance on that money, which is about a € 120,- a month, on which you also get subsidies of maybe 1/3 of that.

During this time of unemployment you're kinda "monitored" by the government, meaning you'd have to show up at "the office" once a month and show proof of that you applied for jobs. One also might have to follow courses of the government for having a better chance getting a job if necessary. Those courses are paid for by the government.
All and all there is pretty good government help if you get unemployed but if you screw up, or don't work along, you'll get cut on your check.
Of course this applies for the Netherlands where I live. All European countries have their own system. Some are better, some are less.

[Sickandtiredofthis]

Well I'm not sure if I agree with you.

In my country it's pretty easy to get income support if you don't have a job. You just go in and make an appointment with the job centre and register there and then.

So no, you won't be expected to work - as long as you provide evidence of work finding.

Council housing is worse and harder to get, you will wait many years for a council house. It depends on where you are on the house list and also where you live in the country i.e what rate of demand exsists and what amount of housing is available.

Most people should get it though.

The British government are very good with helping their citizens.

In saying that I don't know how folk survive on jsa as it is only £57 every two weeks I think.

[cattledog69]

Well that's why I stated that what i explained was only about the Netherlands. Every country has a different system. Apparently in Ireland it's easier to not work and be lazy, but the money is much less according to what you say. So it wouldn't be very attractive for freeloaders maybe?

[Sickandtiredofthis]

Well I wouldn't say that but it certainly isn't enough to live on as a fully grown adult.

It is basically something to keep people going until they find another job. I personally don't think it's enough, there are alot of people who have to take care of children.

I couldn't imagine living on £27 a week and having children to care for.

[cattledog69]

No me neither, that's extremely low indeed. But what about housing, healthcare, transportation, school for the children etc. Is that been taken care of separately?

[Sickandtiredofthis]

I'm not sure. I think they get free meals and free helathcare.

They will have a house but it might not be a good one.

[Ariete]

The system in Finland works pretty much the same as in the Netherlands. The only notable difference is that you are as a resident automatically State health insured, so it's covered.
You cannot simply leech of the system being lazy or not "feeling to work", but you have to actively seek employment if you're fit. If you suffer from depression or have a physical injury, you have to actively attend therapy. Otherwise you'll lose your subsidies, or not getting any in the first place, except maybe a €80 check for food as a desperate measure.
As for being fired or quitting your job, exactly the same things apply here as in the Netherlands.

And it's definitely not big money. If you're single you'll get €500-550 a month + 75% rent subsidies of your rent.

[transientsalmon]

I appreciate all the info. Yea, I'm trying to actively refuse to hold a job...and they're getting on my case, and I have to prove some reason why I can't have a job, and I'm going to try and prove a reason without citing a mental or physical disability...it's going to be the greatest manifesto I've ever written, and if it fails I might actually just give up entirely and live off the grid

[RDM66]

Originally Posted by transientsalmon

I'm working on a letter to the social security admin in US and I want to point out that being well adjusted to a competitive society is not a measure of health, and that European countries have a more expansive system of social security/welfare that makes it less difficult to get sorted out with things like housing and stuff, especially for a person who doesn't necessarily have a job or plans to obtain one, and that the US is not up to par in their social security.

Good luck with that.

I'm assuming that you have recently applied for American Social Security benefits and have been denied. Are you appealing their ruling? (For several years I was a social worker and I used to help people apply for Social Security. I used to determine eligibility for Medicaid in a Midwest state.)

To qualify for an American Social Security you must be either elderly (65 years or older) or certified medically disabled (if you are under 65). They also require that you work and pay Social Security withholding taxes in the U.S. for a minimum of 10 years before you will qualify. The size of your monthly check is also determined by the amount of taxes you have paid into the system over your lifetime. The more taxes you pay, the bigger your check will be.

Your reason above "being well adjusted to a competitive society is not a measure of health" is not a medical disability. Social Security will still deny your claim.

The American Social Security system does not pretend to be as comprehensive as the European systems, and it never will be like the European systems anytime soon. (In fact, most Americans are proud of the fact that our system doesn't mirror the European systems.) We have a very rigid capitalist mindset in America: Everyone is expected to work in some capacity.