Rome vs Istanbul vs Moscow / First, Second, and Third Rome (extended stay, hotel)
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The term Second Rome has been used to refer to Istanbul (back then, Constantinople) and Third Rome to Moscow due to its prominence for the Byzantine Orthodox Church after Constantinople had fallen to the Turks.
Criteria is open to interpretation, but would like to know:
I've only been to Rome and I really liked it. There was so much to see. I wasn't that impressed by Colosseum but the Forum and the Borghese Gallery were amazing.
My only problems with it are the amount of tourists everywhere and how dirty and smelly the streets were, but I guess that's Italy for you.
I'd love to visit both Istanbul and Moscow. Both cities are at the top of my bucket list.
I had a very terrifying experience when I was in Istanbul. The day AFTER I was in Istanbul the U.S. Embassy was attacked, and I was literally only feet away from it the previous day. Imagine if that happened a day earlier... So I don't view Istanbul the same.
Criteria is open to interpretation, but would like to know:
- What are your experiences with each of these?
- Which of these would you rather visit? Why?
- Which of these would you rather live in? Why?
- Which one do you like most? Why?
- What are your experiences with each of these?
I have been to Rome and Istanbul as a tourist, Rome several times for days at a time, Istanbul once for several days. I have never been Moscow.
- Which one do you like most? Why?
I liked Istanbul more, probably the fact that it's a peninsula so more picturesque geographically. I will leave out a discussion of history, extant ancient architecture and museums, it's too long and complicated for a quick post.
- Which of these would you rather live in? Why?
But if I had to live in one or the other, then Rome hands down. Apparently Turkey goes through periods. It's in one of those periods now. Italy is in long, sad decline, and there's no relief in sight, but at least I understand what's going on.
- Which of these would you rather visit? Why?
Well, Moscow of course, simply because I've never been there. I've traveled and lived abroad a lot, and no longer care to do much more of it, but, for me at least at this point, Moscow and Russia might be worth the effort.
At one point I would have liked to visit Libya and Syria, but our goddamn politicians and their overlords in the military/industrial complex have completely screwed that up, hopefully they won't screw up relations with the Russians so badly that visiting there too becomes impossible for the average tourist.
Well I was born and raised in Moscow, it's my native city and I like it more than I cared to understand - I didn't realize it, until I started seeing the destruction of the old parts of Moscow.
Since I've never been to Istanbul ( and have no interest to visit it, as I have no interest in visiting ANY Islamic country,) I can only compare Moscow and Rome.
Rome was interesting to visit - (it's Rome after all, lol) but I wouldn't want to live there, it wouldn't be to my liking. Too crowded, too dirty ( or rather grimy), and too hectic. I remember I made a note back in the day that "in Rome every five minutes someone is either robbed or has a heart attack," because in our hotel we've heard the police or ambulance sirens every five minutes it seemed))) (So no, I liked Turin more as far as big Italian city goes strictly for living.)
Moscow on another hand - I don't see how this could be an interesting city for visiting ( VS Rome,) however it would be definitely my preference as a place to live in, in spite of ( often) crappy weather. It's a big northern European city (that is if we forget about all politics, but will speak strictly in terms of the city itself,) so I like the outlay of the city, I like the buildings, I like the spacious streets, and I like the older parts of the city. The extensive public transportation is a plus, as much as all the social life in Moscow. So Rome is for visiting, Moscow is for living - that would be my choice.
( These are the examples why Moscow is a nice place to live in ( as far as city goes.. )
- What are your experiences with each of these?
have been to all three, but have a lot of time spent in Moscow and Istanbul
- Which of these would you rather visit? Why?
Tough one. I am biased towards Moscow because I know people there and know the language/culture. But actually, not Moscow itself but the surrounding towns and down towards Tula. But really, I am not too much of a fan of Moscow, I prefer smaller towns and St. Petersburg.
I love Istanbul, the history there is fantastic (I am a Byzantine history buff), and it does not get better than Turkish food.
Right now, my mood is slanted towards Moscow, but I could wake up tomorrow feeling Istanbul.
As for Rome, was never a fan of it.
- Which of these would you rather live in? Why?
Well, I rather live in Rome, Italy is the best country out of the three. I do not mind an extended stay in Moscow, but fully knowing I am not "living" there. I do not think I could take living in Istanbul, great to visit but that is it.
- Which one do you like most? Why?[/quote]
Well, I will have to side with Moscow, but as I stated, I have a bias due to knowing the language, culture, and my familiarity with it, along with being a Russian history buff in addition to being a Byzantine history buff. Moscow edges out Istanbul just due to my knowing I get tired of Istanbul after being there for a bit, but not Moscow.
Nothing against Rome, it just is not my cup of tea.
- What are your experiences with each of these?
I have been to Rome and Istanbul as a tourist, Rome several times for days at a time, Istanbul once for several days. I have never been Moscow.
- Which one do you like most? Why?
I liked Istanbul more, probably the fact that it's a peninsula so more picturesque geographically. I will leave out a discussion of history, extant ancient architecture and museums, it's too long and complicated for a quick post.
- Which of these would you rather live in? Why?
But if I had to live in one or the other, then Rome hands down. Apparently Turkey goes through periods. It's in one of those periods now. Italy is in long, sad decline, and there's no relief in sight, but at least I understand what's going on.
- Which of these would you rather visit? Why?
Well, Moscow of course, simply because I've never been there. I've traveled and lived abroad a lot, and no longer care to do much more of it, but, for me at least at this point, Moscow and Russia might be worth the effort.
At one point I would have liked to visit Libya and Syria, but our goddamn politicians and their overlords in the military/industrial complex have completely screwed that up, hopefully they won't screw up relations with the Russians so badly that visiting there too becomes impossible for the average tourist.
Could you provide your thumbnail sketch of the most salient reasons for italy's decline and why you don't think they'll be able to reverse it?
Could you provide your thumbnail sketch of the most salient reasons for Italy's decline and why you don't think they'll be able to reverse it?
The short answer is the refusal to adapt to changing economic conditions in the global environment, the conscious policy to protect in the 1990s-2000s those who became comfortable in the 1970s-1980s at the expense of the upcoming generations, now going on a third.
They've been talking about reform since the late 1980s, but over the past 25 years or so they have done only a lot of talking and a little bit of tinkering around the edges.
Now going on three lost generations, I don't see how that is easily reversed. You?
The latest reform proposal not only does not address any pertinent economic issue (again, again, again), it actually appears retrograde politically and polls suggest that "no" will win.
I will be voting no.
Anyway, perhaps you should have started another thread. But, then again, no.
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(So no, I liked Turin more as far as big Italian city goes strictly for living.)
