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Old 09-10-2017, 04:27 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiko View Post
The American Military Industrial Complex built the super highways to support mobilization as well as dispersal for WWIII. Since the roads exist they can also be used if given warning of an act of God natural disaster coming.
They can? The roads were built when the population was much less dense. Nowadays, the roads in some disaster-prone areas (California: fires, earthquakes, tsunamis, potentially) turn into parking lots, pretty quickly.

I don't understand why they don't use trains to help people evacuate. Amtrak called the Mayor of New Orleans, when Katrina was headed that way, saying they had 10 empty cars scheduled to leave the city, and offered to take evacuees. The mayor turned them down, saying it wasn't necessary.
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Old 09-10-2017, 04:51 PM
 
Location: San Antonio/Houston
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There were 120 busses lined up Hwy. 59 express lane. The line of buses took up a little over a mile of the HOV lane.
They were all parked there. I didn't hear about them being used for transportation or shelter during Harvey...
Ahead of Hurricane Harvey, Houston Metro lines up 120 empty buses in Hwy. 59 express lane - Houston Chronicle
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Old 09-10-2017, 05:25 PM
 
1,554 posts, read 648,121 times
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Miami County's houses are built with concrete by code.
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Old 09-11-2017, 01:59 PM
 
Location: London, United Kingdom
6,114 posts, read 6,644,341 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citizensadvocate View Post
Asia gets hit by very powerful typhoons almost every year some cat 5 super typhoons get stronger than any Atlantic Hurricane every gets such as Typhoon Haiyan.
I don't agree with this.

You're using Super Typhoon Haiyan as a benchmarker for the type of cyclones/hurricanes/typhoons (three names referring to the same thing in different parts of the world) that Asia gets every year is not apt at all. Super Typhoon Haiyan is a Top 2 most powerful hurricane in recorded history, up there with Super Typhoon Tip. It was an aberration by every measure and it did things that we haven't seen hurricanes ever do.

I consider Super Typhoon Haiyan the 6th most powerful and destructive natural disaster in my 26 years of life, right behind the 2004 Sumatra Megathrust and the 2011 Japan Megathrust, as those are numbers 1 and 2, respectively, in my lifetime. As well as the 2010 Haiti Earthquake, the 2005 Kashmir Earthquake, and the 2008 Sichuan Earthquake. Maybe the 1999 Turkey Earthquake too. It only trails these 5 or 6 natural disasters in my lifetime.

Asia does get more powerful hurricanes than North America, the pressure level for Asian Pacific typhoons are generally lower than their Atlantic Basin counterparts in North America but it is not like a Super Hyphoon Haiyan occurs every year in Asia.

By all accounts, at its peak while it was ravaging the Caribbean Sea, Super Hurricane Irma was as powerful as any hurricane in recorded human history with regard to low pressure and sustained wind speeds. It was a whole different animal. Had it not spent an extra 6 hours in Cuba, then Florida would have been in dire straights.

Also regarding why people in North America evacuate compared to Asia. Generally it has a lot to do with the mobility of the people. North Americans are able to do so because they are not financially bogged down to one place in the manner the people of Tacloban were in the Philippines. They simply did not have the means or the resources to evacuate and their government failed them by not warning them about Haiyan's absolutely mind-numbing storm surge. Even after the hurricane, most of these folks don't have the means to move to higher and safer grounds, their employment and income generator is tied to the coast. This will vary from country to country in Asia, for example, in Taiwan, you can't really escape the entire country is an island. Where would you go? Short of getting on a plane and going to another country, you don't have that option available to you. The best you can do is find the sturdiest structure to keep you safe in higher grounds and as far from the coast as possible.

I have watched this documentary 7 times now in the last 3 years. Super Typhoon Haiyan is the type of thing that truly strikes real fear in me. It was a supernatural force of nature, never seen a hurricane quite like that. I hope that I never have to see another hurricane like this in my lifetime. You cannot compare any other hurricane in recorded history to this except for Super Typhoon Tip. Tip didn't cause as much loss of life but statistically it was a force, a force that, statistically speaking, only Haiyan can rival. There have been other hurricanes that have caused widespread casualties but they did it with less power than either Haiyan or Tip.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vjlxDg53zE

Last edited by Facts Kill Rhetoric; 09-11-2017 at 02:12 PM..
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Old 09-11-2017, 02:51 PM
 
2,384 posts, read 1,438,941 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elnina View Post
Concrete is expensive, high rises are still made of steel and concrete, houses would be even less affordable if they did. Some areas are build up the hurricane code, but most elsewhere residential houses are built with stick frames, 1/2" plywood on the exterior, 3/8'' foam on top of that, then vinyl siding on top of the foam. I mean, WHAT'S HOLDING THE HOUSE TOGETHER???? Nothing.

That is my biggest beef about living here in the US...the garbage homes we live in...in Europe they manage to build concrete and brick homes without affordability issues....we should stop being obsessed with 4000 sq/ft cardboard boxes and build real homes.
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Old 09-11-2017, 05:19 PM
 
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https://www.google.com/amp/mobile.re...0PL05720150711

Makes me curious whether those residential blocks in China were evacuated.

Mainland china and Hong Kong are more comparable with the US than island countries.

The motto everywhere where there is tropical cyclones with storm surge is run from water hide from the wind.

It appears the US and Phillipines builds too many low buildings in low lying areas along the coast. I read that the Phillipines did evacuate the area but as with New Orleans when Katrina hit not 100% of people have the means to evacuate. Though it's surprising that Houston despite being 60 mile inland is so vulnerable due to its low lyingness.

Are these Asian/Chinese cities built smarter with most areas higher to avoid storm surge. While some bad flooding do occur but it's not in form of rushing waters.

What I am surprised is downtown Miami and Miami Beach built so many high rise apartment/condos in evacuation Zones and they recommend they leave as well. What's the point of living in a high rise there if it is not a hurricane fortress one can ride out the storm in. So I guess is it because downtown Miami is so low lying that the ocean rushes through downtown and nothing ground level can move at that moment and the only way away is by helicopter which would be impossible in hurricane force winds? Whereas in Hong Kong, Shanghai, Tokyo, and other major cities the city floors are high enough that while storm surge floods can sometimes still revenge parts of the city but it is moderated by the terrain and therefore pretty slow moving and not a rapid tsunami wave type water that Galveston or Florida keys experience.

In Taiwan Keelung and Hualien is right along the coast. Taipei is inland though portions that are lower and near the river do get inundated when storm surge causes the two rivers that criss cross the city to be swollen. Though most residents get by fine by living in taller buildings.
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Old 09-11-2017, 05:50 PM
 
Location: London, United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citizensadvocate View Post
Though it's surprising that Houston despite being 60 mile inland is so vulnerable due to its low lyingness.
Houston is closer than 60 miles from the ocean though. It is 28 miles from Galveston Bay (the first major body of water apart of the ocean) and 51 miles from the Gulf of Mexico.

Houston also has lots of suburbs along the coast, starting with Galveston and then all the ones between Galveston and Downtown Houston. Even more built up around the Galveston Bay. Houston's vulnerability comes with regard to flooding more than storm surge, the city's infrastructure is outdated. It's dams and reservoirs are too small to handle the amount of rain hurricanes like Hurricane Harvey can inflict. Hurricane Harvey was a special case as well, the hurricane stayed stalled in one place for 3-4 days, spinning and causing non-stop rain over the region for days. This was due to the wildfires in the Western United States that kept wind pressure on the mainland and stalled the hurricane in place until wind conditions changed and allowed it to move.

Downtown Houston to Galveston Bay:


Downtown Houston to the Gulf of Mexico (the open ocean):


Houston, New Orleans, and Miami relative to the Ocean:

Quote:
Originally Posted by citizensadvocate View Post
What I am surprised is downtown Miami and Miami Beach built so many high rise apartment/condos in evacuation Zones and they recommend they leave as well. What's the point of living in a high rise there if it is not a hurricane fortress one can ride out the storm in. So I guess is it because downtown Miami is so low lying that the ocean rushes through downtown and nothing ground level can move at that moment and the only way away is by helicopter which would be impossible in hurricane force winds?
Miami is at sea level and has been affected by rising sea levels. Even on sunny days, Miami has a propensity to flood. The evacuation orders from highrises isn't because they highrises cannot sustain hurricane force but because the area would become a hazard to be in due to the city being at sea level and there being lots of construction cranes in the vicinity which can fall on top of buildings (and three did during Hurricane Irma; 2 in Miami and 1 in Fort Lauderdale).

The evacuation was a precautionary order, the state of Florida didn't want to take chances with Super Hurricane Irma when it made landfall. They ordered the evacuations to move as many people out of harms way as they could. It's something the United States is very proactive in doing during natural disasters, they also prevent people from coming back until the area has been reclassified as a safe zone.

Currently no one that left Miami Beach is allowed to come back until the state gives those people the green light to do so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by citizensadvocate View Post
It appears the US and Phillipines builds too many low buildings in low lying areas along the coast. I read that the Phillipines did evacuate the area but as with New Orleans when Katrina hit not 100% of people have the means to evacuate.
New Orleans is below sea level and it is a bowl shaped city. It's the most vulnerable American city to hurricanes because of its geographical position and placement. New Orleans is the easiest place in the United States for water to creep in and take over with storm surge and major flooding. Because of its shape, it also gives flowing water momentum as it generates current while the water is falling down into the city of New Orleans (a very general characteristic of its bowl shape).

See here regarding New Orleans:

https://nebula.wsimg.com/8f90bac744d...&alloworigin=1

All American cities are lagging in necessary infrastructure to protect them from these type of natural disasters. Essentially they are sitting ducks, hoping that a storm either changes course or weakens. The American government is inept, it has proven incapable of defending its cities with necessary and upgraded infrastructure (such as a coastal spine or better and more efficient pump systems). They wait until after a natural disaster to have a conversation of what they can do to prepare and contain damages of the next one and most of the time, that's all they do, talk.

Florida and Texas need a coastal spine and an effective pump system, otherwise they will continue to be sitting ducks. The American government though, they're inept, I don't expect those needs to be addressed anytime soon. That's their track record, it took Hurricane Katrina to happen before they built a good pump system for New Orleans. The pump system cannot handle more than a Category 2 hurricane but it took a major disaster to happen for them to even get that far with infrastructural upgrades.

Last edited by Facts Kill Rhetoric; 09-11-2017 at 06:06 PM..
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Old 09-12-2017, 04:44 PM
 
Location: London, United Kingdom
6,114 posts, read 6,644,341 times
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To the OP and anyone else that has a knack for learning or enjoys educational facts, I encourage people to watch this. It is about 31 minutes long but the information that you'll learn is invaluable and will last a lifetime. Plus there's nothing wrong with building your brain up with even more knowledge and information, which you most definitely will get out of this video. So if you have a spare 31 minutes, give this a watch. It's great, spectacular really.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qym7b-qvkE
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Old 09-12-2017, 05:16 PM
 
Location: Honolulu
727 posts, read 235,432 times
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There are some key differences between American cities and some East Asian cities when they face hurricane/Typhoon:

(1) Most American cities, with the exception of downtown area, have all their utilities hanging in the air. So whenever even a very mild hurricane approaches, i.e. Cat 1, the phone poles and electricity poles and cables are down which lead to blackout of thousands households and maybe millions. And once electricity is out, water is out too. But in the more advanced cities like Tokyo, Hong Kong and Singapore, all utilities and cable are buried underground.

(2) Many East Asian cities have much better drainage system than Houston and Miami. Of course some don't like Shenzhen and Guangzhou always got flooding whenever it rains dogs and cats. But the problem is that many cities do not invest enough in infrastructure like drainage system because those are not show-off projects.

(3) East Asian emergency teams seem less averse to risk. In Florida, fire fighters and ambulance will not be dispatched once the wind speed reaches 45 miles/hr. Most counterparts in East Asia will work as usual under such scenario.
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Old 09-12-2017, 11:02 PM
 
554 posts, read 213,089 times
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I look at images from Google maps it appears coastal cities of the far east such as Tokyo, Shanghai, Hong Kong have much of their city floors built higher and while they are by the coast they are somewhat tucked away from the low lying coastline. They don't seem to build so many low homes right along the coast. I wonder is this the main difference between US and the Far East coastal metro areas. I read that Shanghai is about 20 ft above sea level, and while it floods during a typhoon its not a big torrant tidal wave of water but more of a steady flow of water in which people can walk, float, or boat on without being washed away. Nevertheless Shanghai, as with many booming Chinese cities both coastside and inalnd also has a lot of cranes everywhere due to the ongoing Chinese construction boom during the past two decades also and is a coastal city just like Miami. Though I guess it appears maybe Asians do build their cities more smartly. People in the US build in a haphazard fashion that put them in great risk when a disaster strikes. Think of San Francisco after the 1906 earthquake, they were filling in land to build new housing as part of their rebuilding process.

Also it appears most of the far east is smart and don't build in places like the Florida Keys where it would be inundated by a torrent of water in the event a storm surge wave strikes. A torrant of water impossible to go in without getting washed to sea and killed. Same with the flood zones A B C in Miami Dade county.


Interestingly I remember back in 2005 a few days after Hurricane Katrina hit Louisana and Mississippi, a category 4 supertyphoon Tailum, and cat 5 Supertyphoon Nabi, formed in the Pacific and both of them along with a another typhoon barreled toward Asia, however there was almost no sense of fear or panic among the population despite nonstop news coverage of whats happening overseas in the US Gulf Coast post Katrina, not only that in fact some locals ventured outside wanting to ride out the storm in a Karoke bar or even watching a movie, some were disappointed that some of these venues where shut down for the storm although most Karaoke bars stayed open. This is totally unlike the widespread panic in Texas and the gulf coast when Hurricane Rita appeared on the radar hit three weeks later. The mess was with the state anticipating only Galveston evacuating towards Houston not anticipating that half of Houston would also hit the road even well outside of designated flood evacuation zones.

Interesting how Houston is farther inland yet so vulnerable. It appears the fears they anticipated back when Hurricane Rita hit, while it didn't materialize at that time, it came true about 12 years later when Hurricane Harvey hit.

Interesting is lack of emergency services in winds past 45 miles per hour. I am shocked by this. 45 mile per hour winds happens fairly often in most places without Hurricanes. not just during rainstorms but on a sunny day as well.
Also in this case wouldn't those living outside evacuation A, B, C zones also lose emergency services during the hurricane? obviously I know its impossible to rescue people in a area covered by storm surge when that torrant of water comes in as boats will be uncontrollable, vehicles would be swamped, and high winds prevent any chance of a helicopter rescue in the event someone there suffers an unexpected medical emergency.

Last edited by citizensadvocate; 09-12-2017 at 11:48 PM..
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