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The Government is not going to declare a war on its own people. If the US Government ever tried something like this, the Military would turn against the Commander In Chief.
Which just proves the point that citizens don't need guns to protect themselves against a government whom, if you're correct would never attack its own citizens so you just completely invalidated your previous argument.
I'm not pro-guns at all, but you have a very skwed image of Canadian gun laws as well as the situation in the US. Canadian laws are not particularly harsh on gun owners at all, and even still they hardly count for lower violence in Canada. Canada simply has different demographics, namely it does not have a problem with black/latino gangs, and shares no border with Mexico. Banning guns or taking them from responsible citizens isn't an appealing solution when many of our most notorious gangs have ties to Latin America and can simply order new equipment. In Washington DC and Chicago gun laws are very strict but criminals still get them. And when we make guns illegal, there will always be a guy who will profit bringing guns from south of the border. Just like cocaine is illegal but its illegality makes it more valuable and people traffic it for the money. This doesn't even touch the demographic issues.
Canada's most dangerous province or territory is Nunavut, which has a higher murder rate than any US state. Why? Because the population is mostly Native Canadian and part of a non-white have-not minority. Had Canada not sold her black slaves "down the river" when ending slavery (literally where the phrase "sold down the river comes from") and had it not encouraged most loyalist blacks to "go back to Africa" then it would probably would have the same issues as the US. The US and many Latin American countries tried to form societies where the slaveowners and former slaves had to live together - European countries and Canada conveniently ridded themselves of their black slave populations once they were no longer needed. The UK for instance, is a separate country from Jamaica (her ex slaves) and Holland is separate from Suriname. In Canada populations descended from slaves (Nova Scotia) have the same issues, and so do the populations of natives (like in Nunavut and Winnipeg).
It is the problems in these communities that need to be addressed at least if not more than any gun problem. If you compare murder rates among white Americans it is similar to European countries. It doesn't make much sense to take guns from a Minnesota farmer when a gangster in Minneapolis is the one using it illegally and for wrongdoing. If it was as simple as taking the guns from everyone, I would be all for it, but those gangsters will still have guns illegally. Like I said, I'm not pro-gun at all, but it isn't nearly as black-and-white as your are making it out to be.
Yes exactly.
No, that is patently false.
I will not disagree that demographics plays a part, but that what makes the status quo of gun regulation bizarre to the rest of the world. I know it would be a HUGE task to correct, but the UK brought in stricter regulations in regards to guns and their gun violence dropped.
As for Nunavut and it's murder rate, yes 5 murders in 2012 sounds bad when you do it per capita. However we are taking about GUN violence. I haven't found yet how many of those 5 were done by gun. If they were then it would be most likely a hunting rifle. However picking out a very, very remote part of the country where 31,000 people live and trying to make it sound like a fair comparison to the densely populated urban areas where gun violence is rampant in the US, is dubious.
As for Canada, I'm not sure if you're thinking that by saying our guns laws aren't harsh that they are reasonable or are you hinting that they are close to US laws. If it's the latter, I will strongly disagree.
First our laws are national. No patchwork of jurisdictions in which to muddy the waters. Canadians strongly believe in gun control and except for a few, do not want these laws weakened.
Here's a list of the history of gun regulation in Canada, all of Canada. Pay particular attention to the handguns.
Which just proves the point that citizens don't need guns to protect themselves against a government whom, if you're correct would never attack its own citizens so you just completely invalidated your previous argument.
The idea that people needs guns to protect themselves against their own government is absurd. Do Americans really instill so little faith into their government that they believe they need guns just in case their government decides to kill its own people? Again, that seems symptomatic of wider problems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbesdj
No, that is patently false.
Is it? Apparently any American over 21 can purchase a gun after a criminal background and mental health check - but presumably it varies from state to state. I don't know how hard it is to receive appropriate mental healthcare in the US - I guess it's costly as well. Many people with mental health issues probably never receive the appropriate care.
Last edited by dunno what to put here; 08-26-2014 at 12:25 PM..
The idea that people needs guns to protect themselves against their own government is absurd. Do Americans really instill so little faith into their government that they believe they need guns just in case their government decides to kill its own people?
Well, would you trust these people?
Finnish (left) and Estonian (right) PM's:
Minister of Finance (union boss, so unreliable):
Foreign Minister (atheist, so unreliable):
Minister of the Environment (gay, so unreliable):
Interior Minister (tea-party devout Christian, so unreliable):
Minister of Finance (convicted criminal, so unreliable. Also lawyer, which makes it worse):
Minister of Defense (Swedish-speaking, so unreliable):
These look exactly like the people who would seize power immediately and will kill everyone who opposes them, if it wasn't for the 1.6 million guns.
Good thing the Finnish gun law works, unlike the USA
Gun laws? What gun laws? You Europeans sound so foolish talking about a subject that you just don't understand. I will give you a very example of a very stupid gun law and how dumb these laws are.
In the state of Connecticut, what they call "assault rifles" are banned. I don't know if you remember the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting. Anyways, the perpetrator Adam Lanza used a Bushmaster AR-15 which is considered an "assault rifle".
The Bushmaster was legally purchased before the state ban, therefore it was grandfathered in. How the hell could a stricter gun law have prevented an episode like this? People with criminal minds don't follow laws.
Gun laws? What gun laws? You Europeans sound so foolish talking about a subject that you just don't understand. I will give you a very example of a very stupid gun law and how dumb these laws are.
How do they sound foolish?
Quote:
The Bushmaster was legally purchased before the state ban, therefore it was grandfathered in. How the hell could a stricter gun law have prevented an episode like this? People with criminal minds don't follow laws.
Adam Lanza was mentally ill, he probably would not have tried to searched for an assault rifle on the black market if they were illegal. The logical solution would have been not to have the grandfathering provision.
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