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Old 01-16-2012, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,792 posts, read 85,187,768 times
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Has anyone here written a novel using an outline?

I've avoided doing so, and I'm in the process of rethinking that. I've been doing some self-examination about this, and I think maybe my reluctance to do an outline is simply a feeling of discord between the concept of an outline as a dry vehicle for use in business and reporting and not appropriate for fiction.

Obviously, I'm a minority in that way of thinking, since people have written entire books and articles on making outlines for novels.

I'm now wondering if an outline would help me organize my novel better. I have not written something this long before, and while I've got the first three chapters pretty much completed in first draft, I also have scenes and sections of the rest of the novel (including the ending) written, and I'm still not 100% sure how I am going to connect everything.

I would just like some pros and cons from those who have completed a novel and who used an outline.

Thank you.
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Old 01-16-2012, 04:07 PM
 
Location: A blue island in the Piedmont
34,156 posts, read 83,206,630 times
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My favorite Capote quote instructs us that "Writing has laws of perspective, of light and shade
just as painting does, or music. If you are born knowing them, fine. If not, learn them.
Then rearrange the rules to suit yourself."

Similar applies to composition and structure and grammar...
and yes, using outlines too.
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Old 01-16-2012, 04:20 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,792 posts, read 85,187,768 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
My favorite Capote quote instructs us that "Writing has laws of perspective, of light and shade
just as painting does, or music. If you are born knowing them, fine. If not, learn them.
Then rearrange the rules to suit yourself."

Similar applies to composition and structure and grammar...
and yes, using outlines too.
This is a great response. Thanks. You made my day.
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Old 01-16-2012, 05:57 PM
 
Location: Bellingham, WA
9,726 posts, read 16,774,258 times
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I made a pretty extensive plot outline along with thorough character descriptions before I started my novel, but as I've written the story, many things have changed along the way. Still, much of the story has remained faithful to that outline, and if nothing else it was a good way to organize my thoughts fairly quickly. Assuming I ever finish this one and write another one, I'll definitely start with an outline again only I may be even more thorough about it.
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Old 01-16-2012, 06:38 PM
 
28,895 posts, read 54,251,333 times
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I think an outline is well-nigh indispensable. Oh, sure, there are people such as Stephen King who don't require us. But for the rest, I think it's completely necessary.

Now, my outlines are not figured out down to the page. To me, a good outline has to have three essential elements: 1) What the overall concept of the book is, 2) Who the key characters in the book are, and 3) how the cotton-picking thing ends.

If you don't have #3 yet, don't start writing. Stick with writing your notes. Because otherwise, you'll wind up with a book that meanders along with no clear direction. I mean, if you set out to drive from Key West to Seattle without benefit of maps or GPS, you might eventually get there. But you might spend a lot of time wandering around the country to do it. And the passengers in your car will likely ask, "When the hell are we going to get there?:

Knowing an ending also tells you what needs to happen between Points A and B. What characters really matter. What actions need to happen to make the story progress. Once you know that, things just start beginning to backfill.

In the novel that I'm pitching currently, I had a killer concept, but no clear idea how to end the thing, which means. So I just wrote notes and wrote more notes until -- bingo -- it came to me while driving down the highway. Suddenly, once that piece of the puzzle fell into place, everything else became clear: What to put in, what to leave out, what the characters needed to do and say. Then it only took 60 days to write the first draft.
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Old 01-16-2012, 06:42 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,792 posts, read 85,187,768 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
I think an outline is well-nigh indispensable. Oh, sure, there are people such as Stephen King who don't require us. But for the rest, I think it's completely necessary.

Now, my outlines are not figured out down to the page. To me, a good outline has to have three essential elements: 1) What the overall concept of the book is, 2) Who the key characters in the book are, and 3) how the cotton-picking thing ends.

If you don't have #3 yet, don't start writing. Stick with writing your notes. Because otherwise, you'll wind up with a book that meanders along with no clear direction. I mean, if you set out to drive from Key West to Seattle without benefit of maps or GPS, you might eventually get there. But you might spend a lot of time wandering around the country to do it. And the passengers in your car will likely ask, "When the hell are we going to get there?:

Knowing an ending also tells you what needs to happen between Points A and B. What characters really matter. What actions need to happen to make the story progress. Once you know that, things just start beginning to backfill.

In the novel that I'm pitching currently, I had a killer concept, but no clear idea how to end the thing, which means. So I just wrote notes and wrote more notes until -- bingo -- it came to me while driving down the highway. Suddenly, once that piece of the puzzle fell into place, everything else became clear: What to put in, what to leave out, what the characters needed to do and say. Then it only took 60 days to write the first draft.
I don't have problems with endings. The end of my novel is already written. I often have the ends of short stories or nonfiction pieces written before I've got the opening paragraph nailed. I actually do have an "outline" of sort of the main story. It's more like a one-page set of directions, but there are other layers that need to be filled out.

I think I am going to give an outline a shot just for my brain and the need for the organization. Thanks for your input.
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Old 01-16-2012, 06:44 PM
 
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How do i make a post on this site? I can reply but ow do i post a new topic?
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Old 01-16-2012, 06:55 PM
 
28,895 posts, read 54,251,333 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
I don't have problems with endings. The end of my novel is already written. I often have the ends of short stories or nonfiction pieces written before I've got the opening paragraph nailed. I actually do have an "outline" of sort of the main story. It's more like a one-page set of directions, but there are other layers that need to be filled out.

I think I am going to give an outline a shot just for my brain and the need for the organization. Thanks for your input.
You know, maybe just take it chapter to chapter and leave it at that. For example, "Chapter Four / Mary, having learned that George has cheated on her with her best friend, Susan, goes to a divorce attorney, the devastatingly handsome Hampton Jennings, IV. The tension in the room is palpable and she winds up riding his baloney pony on his Italian leather sofa. Mary leaves his office aglow, but then realizes that two wrongs still don't make a right, no matter how many orgasms she had."
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Old 01-18-2012, 02:29 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,792 posts, read 85,187,768 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
you know, maybe just take it chapter to chapter and leave it at that. For example, "chapter four / mary, having learned that george has cheated on her with her best friend, susan, goes to a divorce attorney, the devastatingly handsome hampton jennings, iv. The tension in the room is palpable and she winds up riding his baloney pony on his italian leather sofa. Mary leaves his office aglow, but then realizes that two wrongs still don't make a right, no matter how many orgasms she had."
baloney pony? Hahahahahahaha
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Old 01-18-2012, 08:23 AM
 
Location: Idaho
815 posts, read 739,618 times
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I can't write anything long without an outline. I usually just write down a brief summary of each chapter, only a paragraph or two, to use as reference while I write the book itself. Extremely helpful, it stops me from getting stuck when I am on a roll, because all of the hard work is already done!
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