"language evolves"--is this a get-out-of-grammar-jail-free card? (sentence, quote, dictionary)

[travis t]

I posted a thread in another section complaining about Seattle football fans' use of the word 'twelves' to describe themselves. The idea is that there are 11 football players on the field, so the fans in the stands constitute a 'twelfth man.'

To me this is poor English. I've never heard of the word 'twelves.' Even MW lists the plural form of 'twelve' as 'twelvemo' (admittedly, I had never heard of that one either).
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/twelve


But of course I was repeatedly lectured that 'language evolves.' Of course it does, but does that give us a get-out-of-grammar-jail-free card? Is it thus ok to put an apostrophe before every trailing 's' whether plural form or not? Is it ok to say 'lay down in bed' rather than 'lie down in bed?' Is it ok to use 'whom' as the subjective form?

What do you think?

[Floorist]

I think that this forum is for authors. Not those nonsense threads of yours.

[2x3x29x41]

Originally Posted by travis t

I posted a thread in another section complaining about Seattle football fans' use of the word 'twelves' to describe themselves. The idea is that there are 11 football players on the field, so the fans in the stands constitute a 'twelfth man.'

Wait... you're complaining about sports fans using jargon? Seriously? Does it also upset you when a baseball announcer refers to a homerun as a homer or a dinger or a four-bagger of any of the other dozen or so non-standard terms for that?

Originally Posted by travis t

To me this is poor English. I've never heard of the word 'twelves.' Even MW lists the plural form of 'twelve' as 'twelvemo' (admittedly, I had never heard of that one either).
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/twelve

No, it doesn't. You're confused by that entry. It lists twelves as the plural form of twelve and also as an apparently informal singular form of a duodecimo, for which twelvemo is the standard singular and twelvemos the plural.

Originally Posted by travis t

But of course I was repeatedly lectured that 'language evolves.' Of course it does, but does that give us a get-out-of-grammar-jail-free card? Is it thus ok to put an apostrophe before every trailing 's' whether plural form or not? Is it ok to say 'lay down in bed' rather than 'lie down in bed?' Is it ok to use 'whom' as the subjective form?

What do you think?

I think if grammar scolds are going to be so nit-picky as to get all wound up over the vernacular of football fans, then they should at least take pains to properly interpret the dictionary definitions they cite. I also think your insinuation that allowing such jargon means we have to throw all grammar out the window is silly, alarmist, and nonsense.

[Mimidae]

It can be both. There are definitely situations where a retort of "language evolves" would apply. But there are other times when it is used indiscriminately as a get-out-of-jail-free card, as you say.

[silibran]

There is really little or nothing grammar purists can do, except to practice what they preach. The language will evolve. Everything changes, including how we use language.

I admit that certain usages bug me. But then I’m no perfect grammarian either. I catch myself using sentence fragments often in posts, for instance. When one’s use of language obfuscates then I think it is OK to to take issue.

However word usage and grammar will change. Trying to stop it is like talking to the wind.

But some of us really do love our common language and take pride in using it “correctly” and well.