Questions about North Western Wyoming. (Cody, Dubois: how much, house, to buy)
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I hate to give away the secrets but Dubois WY might work for rntim.
- Some tourism (it is an outlier town to Yellowstone) but not at all like Cody. Quite mountainous, hunting, fishing (I think), not too snowy but all the snow you want 25 miles west in Togwotee Pass. Some moderately priced houses, some pricey, but not at all like Jackson and lower than Cody. Limited stores but all you need for basics, and 1+ hours to Riverton for Walmart and 3 hours to BIG shopping in either Casper or Idaho Falls. Very western in nature; has an interesting history.
(snip ... I don't know these other towns)
One general thing to be aware of: right now, pricing is kinda going nuts in many parts of the region, for any place with any level of fame, beauty, and or living conveniences desired by 'townies'. Definitely a seller's market in some places, but less so in the . I'd start picking a few candidate markets and start tracking the prices right now, at peak price season. I have been doing so for a few years and so the price trend and the 'property flying off of the shelves' situation is pretty obvious in some areas.
Sorry, but we're gonna' disagree strongly on this recommendation.
I've been going to Dubois WY for over 35 years. It's a rather pricey town, and has been that way for decades.
Why? because it's been one of those "hidden gems" for recreation of the eastern money'ed set for a long time. There's a lot of "old money" interests in the area.
I've related on other threads my first experience heading into Dubois ... on the advice of a friend and seeking a place to camp out/fish for a weekend, I flew into Dubois. That month, there were just a few of the brand new Piper Malibu's flying, an expensive single-engine cross-country hauler. Most were being flown by paid pilots rather than pilot-owners; my CFII quit his teaching job to go full-time as a family pilot in one of these aircraft. I came around on short final into the strip ... and was surprised to see a couple of these along with some other high-end singles and twins on the ramp.
I was impressed with the numerous fishing cabins on the river through town. Just for grins, I inquired about a few that were for sale. To my surprise, modest cabins on/near the water with minimal frontage and a small parcel of land were in the $800K to well into $mid-7 figures. That was 35 years ago!
At the time, these places were as expensive, if not more so, than many comparable properties in the Jackson area.
To put another view of how attractive Dubois is to a higher priced marketplace ... just a few years ago, I was getting unsolicited ad flyers inviting me to buy a hangar at the Dubois airstrip, suitable for my little bird. Only $300,000. Built on spec, somebody had to have confidence that there would be a market demand for such a structure. Apparently, they were correct. Almost triple what I could build a comparable hangar for here at home in SE WY.
That you're not sure about fishing being a major recreational attraction of the town suggests that you may be unfamiliar with Dubois. It's been a very big deal since the area was opened up, even before the railroad provided access to the West through Wyoming.
Some of the housing in Dubois is targeted to the "worker bees" of the area. Even those properties are fairly pricey ... and not necessarily without needing a lot of work to update them.
It's a pretty busy town during the tourist season and many businesses need to make their annual profit during that time. Slows down a lot when the east entry to YNP closes for the season, and the drive down to Riverton can be somewhat daunting during wintertime inclement weather.
In my view, there are other places in Wyoming with scenic vistas, nearby recreation, and better travel access than Dubois for a lot less outlay ... with a lot less tourist based economy. For me, if it weren't for being a GA pilot/aircraft owner, Dubois wouldn't be a very accessible location for recreation and get-aways. It's very much a remote destination location by car, especially if you want to retain access to other places via airline travel ... or for other purposes, such as good medical care, shopping, or restaurants/entertainment.
Pull up the Zillow site on current listings in Dubois and you'll not find much under $200K, pretty much older or minimal houses. Most of the market is around double that and up ... way way up, with pretty modest housing at the lower end.
Two further observations:
1) the poster was concerned about living with the "tourist town" aspects of Sitka ... the tourist town impact in Dubois is much more significant given the small population count (under 1,000 residents) and limited geographic size of Dubois up against the reservation lands or public lands with a highway leading to a main entrance of YNP.
2) my 1883 Halleck's "Sportsman's Gazetteer" (pub Orange Judd & Co.) lists this region, in and near the Yellowstone area, as a premier fishing and hunting area. They suggest taking the UP Railroad to one of the nearby stations for the region and thence travel by pack-horse to the area. This was one of but many guide books touting the recreational/sporting aspects of the region in pre-statehood days to the affluent eastern sportsmen of this country regarding a well-established reputation for excellent fishing/hunting activity. They'd already invested in many "camps" in the Adirondacks and similar locations back east, and were now looking to promote similar activities in the West. Enclaves such as in the Yellowstone area in WY, and locations such as Grand Lake CO were actively touted and sold by the promoters to their well to do clients. And it wasn't uncommon for a fellow to come out west for a couple months of sporting activities ... and buy a sizable tract of land here with the intent to sell shares in it to his fishing /hunting buddies back home; some succeeded, some didn't in attracting like minded outdoorsmen to invest. The take-away here is there was intense interest by a money'ed set long ago to turn this area into their private recreational property because the land was so plentiful and productive for their pursuits ... and they most certainly didn't want to rub elbows with the riff-raff. These were the type of folk that owned big tracts such as the Adirondacks League Club (sp?) near Elmira NY; private hunting/fishing lands with their fences and patrols to maintain exclusivity for their members use. Even the members were limited as to how many "guests" they could bring onto the premises, especially during prime use time periods, even to their own "cabins" within the boundaries of the properties.
Appreciate getting mentioned! I was just sort of giving the rundown of Sitka, AK. We worked in Anchorage for like 9 years and it was a nice place then--now its like any city U.S.A. Lots of drug problems and man there are a lot of shooting there now. We headed south-I'm a critical care nurse and worked in some awesome level 1 trauma hospitals. 12 years ago we worked in Homestead, Fl. and lived in the Keys--snottiest people we've ever run into. We said we are outta there and came back to AK 10 years ago almost. Reason I bought up this town is that we use to get tons of cruise ship folks and rich guys come up here to fish mostly for king salmon and drink themselves silly. You can spot them a mile away--they all look like they all went to Cabelas to get clothes and such. The "tourist season" folks dry up by end of Sept. Then the town gets back to normal. Those tourists spend money in local stores and lodges--not this year with no cruise ships or tons of outsiders and times are tough for many people. We have 14 miles of road, thats it, but a gal. of gas is 3.68 today. Power bills here run an average of say 350-400/mth. Medical care here is real marginal(we keep our emergency lifeflight insurance up to date) because if I had a heart attack(for example), they ain't touching me here, like medivac my ass to Seattle. Sounds like I'm complaining but I don't mean to sound like it-we just couldn't afford to live here like we do now after we retire. We are all about small town is all. Man, we bought a almost new 4x4 3 years ago-have put a whole 1500 miles on it, still like brand new. We have 2 karelian bear dogs that are still young and we would not ever leave them behind. I have a couple commercial fishing neighbors that were born here and came up here-they are thinking of leaving also. Things just keep getting more expensive. This place almost seems like its becoming more and more for the "haves" and not for the "have little or have-nots." I'm from the northwest and I will always live where it snows and all that good stuff. My wife is from Michigan and pondered the Michigan upper peninsula-but watching the news and such--oh hell no. I've never been there and don't plan on ever going. She is also nurse and likes the idea of WY for several reasons--I've been talking about it for a couple years when we discuss "whats next." We won't be looking for work; been dealing with other peoples "problems" for damn near 29 years and at some point, enough is enough. Sorry to babble on--day off and weather is crappy. So, after all that babble I'm just trying to figure where would we go to enjoy the rest of what we got left in terms of age. We aren't wealthy by a long shot but would have a decent retirement income for living in a little town without all the bells and whistles. I've been tempted to throw all this out there for some time now--but its "really getting real" in terms of leaving AK. So, I'm just trying to see what local folks there think. Do you think Cody would be an option? Thanks.
I hate to give away the secrets but Dubois WY might work for rntim.
- Some tourism (it is an outlier town to Yellowstone) but not at all like Cody. Quite mountainous, hunting, fishing (I think), not too snowy but all the snow you want 25 miles west in Togwotee Pass. Some moderately priced houses, some pricey, but not at all like Jackson and lower than Cody. Limited stores but all you need for basics, and 1+ hours to Riverton for Walmart and 3 hours to BIG shopping in either Casper or Idaho Falls. Very western in nature; has an interesting history.
- Another is Ennis, MT, if fishing is a big deal.. the Madison river runs through there. Hunting, mountains on both east and west side of a big long valley. Same local small shopping only; Bozeman is a bit over an hour away. Also a very western, big valley feel. A good number of homes.
- Challis ID also come to mind. No tourism, some ag, prices OK because the nearby Molybdenum mine shut down in 2014, on the edge of the mountainous wilderness of central ID, hunting and fishing. Basic shopping, 2 hours to Idaho Falls for big shopping. So a small town in a pretty backwater area, that may slowly lose population as time goes on. But the prices are not going nuts right now.
Could be a lot of other candidate towns like what you want. All smaller, in the mountains, somewhat remote, not in the mainstream of where the main buying demand is, and priced better. Philipsburg MT is like that. But a lot of this list depends on your needs/desires for other things, like big shopping and medical care. Also, do you plan to only stay for a few years and so want the property values to hold, or do you plan to stay there 'for the duration', and so can maybe afford the property values to not hold 100%? And what town size do you want?
One general thing to be aware of: right now, pricing is kinda going nuts in many parts of the region, for any place with any level of fame, beauty, and or living conveniences desired by 'townies'. Definitely a seller's market in some places, but less so in the . I'd start picking a few candidate markets and start tracking the prices right now, at peak price season. I have been doing so for a few years and so the price trend and the 'property flying off of the shelves' situation is pretty obvious in some areas.
Things like how isolated a place is, the distance to work or big shopping or medical facilities, the need for a job or not (retired) the general prosperity, (the 'new and shiny' or 'old and crusty' aspect of a place..... all those play into what a given individual likes. As for rntim's needs, sounds like jobs are not needed and that opens things up to more remote towns, if the distance to bigger facilities is OK. But that is one aspect of that region.... it tends to be a loooong way between anything. And that is something any newcomer needs to get his/her head wrapped around; someone mentioned being used to Walmart but it still can be over an hour away.... If you stay at home and work on things there, then that makes a big difference. So think about what you like to do and if you want or need to do big shopping, etc., and lay out the distances to bigger towns/small cities on the map.
As far as tourist season, that applies to all the towns around NW WY to varying degrees. It seems to vary in proportion to how close you are to a main gate of YNP, with West Yellowstone and Island Park and Gardiner leading the pack. Jackson is in a class by itself, being the busiest tourism area, as it has YNP AND big skiing AND big money; sounds like rntim's Key west experience! Red Lodge and Dubois and Ennis and Star Valley and Teton Valley ID get less and less touristy. We have been in all of those towns looking for property in the last few years and to get a feel for each one.
Weather/climate is another thing that effects people's choices; the amount of sun and snow can vary quite hugley in a few 10's of miles in the region around NW WY. So if you are OK with more winter clouds, then that changes things versus if you want lots of sun or lots of snow, etc.
As for Dubois, I just don't know about fishing there as I don't fish, and so don't feel qualified to comment on fishing anywhere (unless it is pretty famous for that already, like Ennis Mt). I have been there 4 times viewing both land land and houses and track everything on the market there every week or 2. The OP mentioned being in the mountains, so Dubois qualifies well for that, and tourism action there is indeed small compared to Cody; it is just a bit too far out from YNP to be really busy. And as far as home/land prices and expense, if you really look around the mountain region 100 miles or so around NW WY, the prices in all the towns are in line with each other and higher than average for WY in general. Cody seems to be seeing plenty of upwards price pressure right now. If lower priced housing is needed/desired then you'll tend to have to go further away from the mountains and not have the beauty right in your front yard so to speak.
But other similar locales have been suggested, and there are a LOT of other possible places if you want to look at other mountains in the region.
Thanks NM! We live in Alaska--we know what far in between places is! We lived and worked in the interior prior to winding up in Sitka! We also know what 40 below is as well as feet of snow! As for towns-small is good is all I'm looking for. Right now we have 18 hours of "sunlight," we get like 130 inches of rain here yearly--real sunny days here are few. We live in a rain forest. Winter, well about 6 hrs of light. There aren't any big box stores here. Nor restaurants. Man, we haven't had a decent pizza in years! I've been in and through Wyoming many times back in the day; lived in Bozeman back in my college days and was on the fire of 1988 in Yellowstone. I was a logger and forest fire fighter back in my young days-I was also a walking accident waiting to happen! Damn near cut my head off with a chainsaw kickback. Thats when I decided being an RN might be a better choice. Wyoming still seems to be an awesome place--as it was many years ago! Just trying to get a feel from locals as to how things are now. Its easily going to cost us like 10 grand to move so down the road planning is my way of thinking. I'm interested in any feedback from anyone! Oh yeah, someone mentioned wind. We live on a point here-my backyard is the ocean. We call it windy when those folks in the south call it a hurricane. Thanks for taking the time for your thoughts!
Thanks NM! We live in Alaska--we know what far in between places is! We lived and worked in the interior prior to winding up in Sitka! We also know what 40 below is as well as feet of snow! As for towns-small is good is all I'm looking for. Right now we have 18 hours of "sunlight," we get like 130 inches of rain here yearly--real sunny days here are few. We live in a rain forest. Winter, well about 6 hrs of light. There aren't any big box stores here. Nor restaurants. Man, we haven't had a decent pizza in years! I've been in and through Wyoming many times back in the day; lived in Bozeman back in my college days and was on the fire of 1988 in Yellowstone. I was a logger and forest fire fighter back in my young days-I was also a walking accident waiting to happen! Damn near cut my head off with a chainsaw kickback. Thats when I decided being an RN might be a better choice. Wyoming still seems to be an awesome place--as it was many years ago! Just trying to get a feel from locals as to how things are now. Its easily going to cost us like 10 grand to move so down the road planning is my way of thinking. I'm interested in any feedback from anyone! Oh yeah, someone mentioned wind. We live on a point here-my backyard is the ocean. We call it windy when those folks in the south call it a hurricane. Thanks for taking the time for your thoughts!
Finding a rental under $2000/mo is a real problem. The people that work in Jackson mostly live in Idaho and commute.
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