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Old 09-13-2012, 11:55 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
24,120 posts, read 32,468,260 times
Reputation: 68363

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I'll share mine first.

We had been married for six years and had saved enough money that we felt good about starting a family. We stopped using birth control, After a year of nothing I say my gynecologist. At first all tests were negative. After two cycles he stated me on the fertility drug clomid.(chlomophene HCL)

This had to be one of the most difficult times for me.Almost all of my friends my age were pregnant or had children. I think I was averaging 2 or 5 baby showers a month. It was so hard.

You see I'd wanted children all of my life. As a little girl, dolls were my favorite play thing. I changed career aspirations often, but I knew that some day I'd meet the perfect man. Perhaps I'd meet him in college. We'd graduate together, settle down buy a cute little house with a white picket fence. I'd work for a couple of years and then it would happen. I would get pregnant by accident!

This was what happened to my parents. My aunts and friend's moms. It was what was happening to my friends. All around me the girls who I'd grown up with were getting pregnant. They pushed strollers and joked that all they had to do was look at their husband and the next thing they knew - they were pregnant!

I had the house and the husband and even a white picket fence. But no baby.

After a year my doctor, who I'd grown to love, said that in good conscience, he could no longer see me. I had a problem that was beyond his scope. I needed to see a reproductive endochonologist, An infertility specialist.

I felt horrible. I felt defective. What had I done to deserve such a cruel fate? I went through stages of grief as one would when given a terminal diagnoses. Denial. Anger. Grief. Sometimes all three at once.
People said unbelievably rude things to us. "What's the matter? Your husband shootingg blanks?"
"You should ce over to my house some night sweetie, I'll get you pregnant!" "Everyone laughed and I ran out of the room. My husband ran after me. That night I cried so hard I thought I would be ill.
The next day I got my period. Again.

I checked around to find the right infertility sprcialist. Other nurses game me a name. Top in his feild. I called his office and he was booked for three cycles.. That was how I measured my life in cycles not in months.

Before I saw him i needed to find out if this top doctor, the one who "got every one pregnant" was on my insurance plan. He was not.

I had to ague with the insurance company to let me see this wizard in filling barren wombs. I continues taking the chlomophene while awaiting approval and finally one month I was pregnant with my son.

Nine months later I gave birth to the most beautiful little boy in the world, my son who is now eighteen and a freshman in college. But we did not relax for one moment.

We knew we wanted more children. After six months I picked up the phone book and looked up not infertility doctors but adoption agencies. We wanted more tha one child and we knew I had some issues. We wou;ld still try but we wanted to make sure that we had a brother or sister for our little boy.

I called the first and closest agency that I saw. I asked where I could begin. How to begin. I knew nothing. They aked if I was open to a child who was not white because if so (at that time) I could have a baby in a year. They had many programs -domestic and international but the director was a Korean woman and that program ran quickly. I ran it by DH and he said sure. And we began the paper process.We still tried to get pregnant and I continued taking infertility meds. At this time I had begun to see the reprductive ebndocrimologist. Mt best friend Jen went to appointments with me. The paper pregnancy went as planned. The biological one did not.

When my son was one year old I missed a period! Could it be? could I be pregnant? I ran to the drug store to buy a pregnancy test and I was pregnant! I couldn't believe it!

We still continued with our paper pregnancy. I became enamored with the idea of a little girl and a sure, but expensive thing.

Then two months into my pregnancy I had pain and bleeding. It was all over. I had a miscarriage. It was really one of the most diffuicult times in my life. Thinking about it now makes me feel sad, empty and broken.

On television there was a man who was trying to get his son - a child he had never met, away from the only parents that he had never known. I watched with horror as the little boy - just a few years older than mt son, was pried from his parents arms. I had nightmares.

I called the agency in tears once again and I asked the director if this could happen to us. She told us it could not. And why it could not.

My son celebrated his first birthday, He toddled around the house. At Christmas well meaning relatives asked when C , our son, would have a little brother or sister. My husband kindly fielded these questions "soon" he said "were working on it"

My sister popped out baby three. My sister in law a set of twins! For us, nthing.

Then a week before valentines day we received a call from the adoption agency. We were asked to come in.The news was good.
It was a week before Valentines Day and I remember that we drove to the agency in the snow in our red Subaru Station wagon. The one I thought that would be filled with kids at this point. We'd bought it six years ago and one little blonde boy sat in the car seat in his blue Weather Tamer snowsuit. All alone.

We entered the warm office and a councelor told us to have a seat. A secretary brought me a tea and a coffee for my husband. My son ate Cheerios from a tupper wear container and sippped apple juice supplies by the agency.

We have a referal! Said the woman. "A what? " we both asked in unison "A baby girl! If you like her, she can be yours!"
If we liked her? We took one look at her and felll in love with the beautiful little girl in the picture with the strnage baby clothes and full head of thick black hair. May I keep the picture? I asked ? I was afraid she was going to take it away. "Of course! She is yours!" I gazed at the beautiful baby girl who was ours! I showed my son "look! Its your sister!" "Baaay beeee" he said in his toddler voice.

In April we met her at JFK Internatinal Airport. It would be a happy mother's day this year.

Last edited by sheena12; 09-14-2012 at 12:46 AM..
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Old 09-14-2012, 06:07 AM
 
Location: Midwest
2,182 posts, read 2,319,833 times
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That is such a beautiful story, sheena. Thank you for sharing it. It is definitely going to inspire others.
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Old 09-14-2012, 06:57 AM
 
Location: Chapel Hill, N.C.
36,499 posts, read 54,078,069 times
Reputation: 47919
I was 30 years old in 1976 when I married my husband who at 36 was divorced several years and had 3 children and ...a vasectomy. I knew children were going to be part of my life even if I married a man with a vasectomy. There was no doubt at all. He agreed and of course we only thought about adoption.

After 6months of marriage my maternal alarms started in on overdrive so I contacted an adoption agency. We were told we had not been married long enough and my husband's 3 kids and vasectomy were red flags that adoption was not for us. Reluctantly I tried artificial insemination with anonymous donor. In those days no books of pictures to choose from. they hadn't even seen my husband. This was in a teaching hospital and from the way he acted around me I think I could tell who the donor was. It was a very uncomfortable situation. 4 months and nothing but disappointment. All this was extremely baffling because I had terminated a pregnancy as a teenager so I knew I was fertile. But the termination was a back alley butcher job way before abortion was legalized and I feared I had lost my fertility. This is one reason why I am so pro choice. There will always be unplanned pregnancies and people who want to terminate. They should be able to do so in safe, medically supervised clinics.

Finally we determined vasectomy reversal was the only alternative. DH underwent this painful procedure but it was very expensive and a drain on our budget as newlyweds paying alimony and 3x child support. But it worked. We saw the results on our own microscope.

2 years later and still nothing. I went for fertility treatments, took clomid, had laproscopic surgery, DH even took clomid for a few months. All this infertility treatment is extremely time sensitive and expensive. We won't even discuss what it does to a marriage. I found my co workers very snarky about the time i was taking away from work even though I confided to my supportive boss. I finally quit that well paying job to take 2 part time lesser paying jobs which would give me more time flexibility for appointments.

Finally when I was 35 the stars aligned and our beautiful son was born to us. For 2 years I was in heaven. I was able to stay home with him as we paid our last alimony and child support checks 2 months before he was born.

But I had always wanted a daughter and knew she was out there waiting for us. I had spent my early childhood living in Japan and DH had spent a lot of time in Asian countries. We both loved and admired the Asian people. Trying for a Korean adoption seemed only natural. Besides, there were horror stories about birth parents changing their minds and taking the baby back. I witnessed an unethical woman trick some friends out of $25,000 for a nonexistent baby. It was a non-brainer.

The day we were told everything was A OK the social worker told me it would be 6 months to a year before they would be able to offer a referral. Great timing...DS would be out of the crib, off the bottle and out of diapers. Talk about family planning!

SEVENTEEN DAYS LATER she called with "I've got a baby for you" I almost had a stroke. I stammered on the phone "but...but..you said...". She said "Well if you're not ready I can just give this referral to the next person on the list."

'DON'T YOU GIVE MY BABY TO ANYBODY ELSE. SHE'S MINE!"

This was at the time a Korean Airliner had been shot down and I was a nervous wreck for the approximately 6 weeks it took to get her here. But on December 31, 1983 we celebrated New Year's Eve by going to the airport where our daughter was brought home escorted by Eastern Airlines employees along with 6 other baby girls. nine thousand passengers got off that plane before we saw our daughter. As each baby entered the concourse the escort held the kid up, the social worker called out parents name and we all screamed 'HERE, HERE, THAT IS OUR DAUGHTER" and ran to claim our beautiful babies. The tape of that night is my most cherished possession and we watch it every NYE as a family and I cry like a baby every time.
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Old 09-14-2012, 07:19 AM
 
Location: Chapel Hill, N.C.
36,499 posts, read 54,078,069 times
Reputation: 47919
Skip forward many years. We had planned for many more children. In 36 years of marriage no birth control and only 1 pregnancy. But I know stress can take a toll on a woman's fertility. I had to have my ill mother come live with us. That put a monkey wrench in our plans but we accepted our responsibilities and our blessings. After I put her in a nursing home I knew it was time for more children. but how? I was 53 DH was 59. Impossible. DH suggested adopting through foster care. Our 3 months training was a
nightmare. no way could I do that but I greatly admire those who do.

We tried China. Lots of money and THREE lost referrals later we were denied because of our age. Holding a picture of a child you think you are going to adopt only to be told "Sorry- we made a mistake" We wanted sisters between 3 and 7. One little girl lost her foot in a train wreck and we even contacted medical references to get her seen the minute she got home. That agency was not for us.

We found out Vietnam had no age limits and took each couple case by case.
The story of our 2 adoptions from Vietnam is enough for a book.

Highlights: 2 more lost referrals,(2 of whom I met, held on my lap and told them I would be back for them ) tens of thousands of dollars, fraudulent agency and facilitator who was banished from the country, 1 month one time and 6 weeks the next waiting in a hotel for a baby to show up, calls to embassy, tears over the many miles to DH back home, hospitalization in VN for stomach problems from stress, 4 trips to VN in 11 months.

Finally we were all home together. I was 55, DH 62, DS 21, DD 19. We asked for two girls between the ages of 4 and 8. We got a 3 month old and a 7 month old!

So when I hear people say "You can always adopt" I have to roll my eyes and remember what we and so many others have been through.
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Old 09-14-2012, 08:35 AM
 
14,400 posts, read 14,303,039 times
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My adoption story is a bit different than some of the others here.

DW and I discovered early in our marriage we had a fertility issue. I sometimes read about people who suffer a lot of angst over being infertile. I cannot say we did particularly. I have always been a "realist" about life and I seldom put my efforts into choices that I believe are going to result in hitting an impassible brick wall. My wife is very much the same way. The Maxim that "Life isn't Fair" is something I accepted early on. I believe it accounts for much of the success my wife and I have enjoyed. We actually ran into some people who were rather insensitive to us about infertility. This may surprise some people, I am actually grateful to those folks. I think sometimes what you need in life is a hard kick in the rear end. It gets you going more than compassion does.

This all happened 20 years ago in the 90's. Domestic infant adoption was actually something that was very realistic at that time in Utah where we live. So, we went that route. In less than two years, we adopted our son. I still remember the joy of seeing him for the first time. He was small, 5 pounds and 8 ounces, but he was still within the criteria of a normal birth weight and so he was immediately sent home from the hospital.

Its when we went to adopt a second time that we experienced trouble. The second adoption took us seven years to complete. I learned a great deal about adoption agencies, adoption workers, and attitudes towards adoption during this period. The last two years were stressful indeed and we almost gave up. However, at the end of the process we ended up with a very healthy and very loving baby girl that we would have walked through fire to get. I was 39 (three months short of 40) when she came to us. Our initial goal was to have all our children before one of us turned 40 and despite all the barriers that were thrown in our way, we met that goal. I am glad that my personality is that of a "fighter" because that is exactly what it took to see this process through. Without going into great detail, there were constant issues that had to be dealt with during this seven years.

We are blessed people with much to be grateful for. I believe adoption as an institution is beneficial for many people. While unfortunately it does not work out for 100% of parents and adoptees, it works far more often than it does not.

I do worry about the future. I think because of attitudes that have changed we are going to see far fewer adoptions. This would be o.k., if there were some corresponding improvement in child welfare. On the contrary, I see the plight of poor children getting worse in a country like the USA which seems to worship wealthy people and the dollar.
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Old 09-14-2012, 12:20 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
24,120 posts, read 32,468,260 times
Reputation: 68363
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
My adoption story is a bit different than some of the others here.

DW and I discovered early in our marriage we had a fertility issue. I sometimes read about people who suffer a lot of angst over being infertile. I cannot say we did particularly. I have always been a "realist" about life and I seldom put my efforts into choices that I believe are going to result in hitting an impassible brick wall. My wife is very much the same way. The Maxim that "Life isn't Fair" is something I accepted early on. I believe it accounts for much of the success my wife and I have enjoyed. We actually ran into some people who were rather insensitive to us about infertility. This may surprise some people, I am actually grateful to those folks. I think sometimes what you need in life is a hard kick in the rear end. It gets you going more than compassion does.

This all happened 20 years ago in the 90's. Domestic infant adoption was actually something that was very realistic at that time in Utah where we live. So, we went that route. In less than two years, we adopted our son. I still remember the joy of seeing him for the first time. He was small, 5 pounds and 8 ounces, but he was still within the criteria of a normal birth weight and so he was immediately sent home from the hospital.

Its when we went to adopt a second time that we experienced trouble. The second adoption took us seven years to complete. I learned a great deal about adoption agencies, adoption workers, and attitudes towards adoption during this period. The last two years were stressful indeed and we almost gave up. However, at the end of the process we ended up with a very healthy and very loving baby girl that we would have walked through fire to get. I was 39 (three months short of 40) when she came to us. Our initial goal was to have all our children before one of us turned 40 and despite all the barriers that were thrown in our way, we met that goal. I am glad that my personality is that of a "fighter" because that is exactly what it took to see this process through. Without going into great detail, there were constant issues that had to be dealt with during this seven years.

We are blessed people with much to be grateful for. I believe adoption as an institution is beneficial for many people. While unfortunately it does not work out for 100% of parents and adoptees, it works far more often than it does not.

I do worry about the future. I think because of attitudes that have changed we are going to see far fewer adoptions. This would be o.k., if there were some corresponding improvement in child welfare. On the contrary, I see the plight of poor children getting worse in a country like the USA which seems to worship wealthy people and the dollar.

I see a shift also from the 90s to now. Not only from anti-adoption factions, but as you said in the plight of poor children and in people's unabashed worship of all things material.
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Old 09-15-2012, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Warren, OH
2,744 posts, read 4,234,073 times
Reputation: 6503
I've been through this through my wife who was diagnosed with secondary infertility. I don't think that we've been through anything as difficult as this in our 25 years of marriage. Let's just say we turned a negative into a positive. I don't think there has been a woman more cut out to being a mother than my wife. My wife is the greatest mother I've known (sorry mom), in that she balances her life between our children , her own life and our life together. She gives our kids the space they need, but knows when to reel them in at the right time. Our children are quite open with her, and they know if they need to discuss anything with her, (their friends also come to her for advice) she will be supportive and will do the right thing. I know for a fact that when our children leave home after college they are always invited home and will come back. So to say that someone is not cut out to be a mother because of infertility is cruel. Look at all the women out there that are super fertile and all the CPS cases and all the children that wind up in US Foster Care System, and then claim that fertility makes a good mother, sounds very foolish.
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Old 09-16-2012, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,580 posts, read 84,777,093 times
Reputation: 115100
Quote:
Originally Posted by no kudzu View Post
I was 30 years old in 1976 when I married my husband who at 36 was divorced several years and had 3 children and ...a vasectomy. I knew children were going to be part of my life even if I married a man with a vasectomy. There was no doubt at all. He agreed and of course we only thought about adoption.

After 6months of marriage my maternal alarms started in on overdrive so I contacted an adoption agency. We were told we had not been married long enough and my husband's 3 kids and vasectomy were red flags that adoption was not for us. Reluctantly I tried artificial insemination with anonymous donor. In those days no books of pictures to choose from. they hadn't even seen my husband. This was in a teaching hospital and from the way he acted around me I think I could tell who the donor was. It was a very uncomfortable situation. 4 months and nothing but disappointment. All this was extremely baffling because I had terminated a pregnancy as a teenager so I knew I was fertile. But the termination was a back alley butcher job way before abortion was legalized and I feared I had lost my fertility. This is one reason why I am so pro choice. There will always be unplanned pregnancies and people who want to terminate. They should be able to do so in safe, medically supervised clinics.

Finally we determined vasectomy reversal was the only alternative. DH underwent this painful procedure but it was very expensive and a drain on our budget as newlyweds paying alimony and 3x child support. But it worked. We saw the results on our own microscope.

2 years later and still nothing. I went for fertility treatments, took clomid, had laproscopic surgery, DH even took clomid for a few months. All this infertility treatment is extremely time sensitive and expensive. We won't even discuss what it does to a marriage. I found my co workers very snarky about the time i was taking away from work even though I confided to my supportive boss. I finally quit that well paying job to take 2 part time lesser paying jobs which would give me more time flexibility for appointments.

Finally when I was 35 the stars aligned and our beautiful son was born to us. For 2 years I was in heaven. I was able to stay home with him as we paid our last alimony and child support checks 2 months before he was born.

But I had always wanted a daughter and knew she was out there waiting for us. I had spent my early childhood living in Japan and DH had spent a lot of time in Asian countries. We both loved and admired the Asian people. Trying for a Korean adoption seemed only natural. Besides, there were horror stories about birth parents changing their minds and taking the baby back. I witnessed an unethical woman trick some friends out of $25,000 for a nonexistent baby. It was a non-brainer.

The day we were told everything was A OK the social worker told me it would be 6 months to a year before they would be able to offer a referral. Great timing...DS would be out of the crib, off the bottle and out of diapers. Talk about family planning!

SEVENTEEN DAYS LATER she called with "I've got a baby for you" I almost had a stroke. I stammered on the phone "but...but..you said...". She said "Well if you're not ready I can just give this referral to the next person on the list."

'DON'T YOU GIVE MY BABY TO ANYBODY ELSE. SHE'S MINE!"

This was at the time a Korean Airliner had been shot down and I was a nervous wreck for the approximately 6 weeks it took to get her here. But on December 31, 1983 we celebrated New Year's Eve by going to the airport where our daughter was brought home escorted by Eastern Airlines employees along with 6 other baby girls. nine thousand passengers got off that plane before we saw our daughter. As each baby entered the concourse the escort held the kid up, the social worker called out parents name and we all screamed 'HERE, HERE, THAT IS OUR DAUGHTER" and ran to claim our beautiful babies. The tape of that night is my most cherished possession and we watch it every NYE as a family and I cry like a baby every time.
Ah, and I don't even need a tape. I'm teary-eyed just reading this!
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Old 09-17-2012, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic
1,820 posts, read 4,492,434 times
Reputation: 1929
My husband & I were almost 30 when we got married. Both of us pretty much work aholics! We talked about having children while dating, during our engagement,etc... Not giving much thought really to our age... And possible obstacles we might face if we waited a few years to have children.
My maternal instincts didn't really kick in until about 2 years later and so we started trying.... We did some testing, lots of "talk" therapy w/ my dr, " try not to stress,etc.."
In the meantime, my MIL passed away after a very difficult, but short, battle with cancer & my mom had just been diagnosed with breast cancer.So much for not stressing......

After bloodwork, testing,etc.. And watching a very close friend suffer thru 2 failed in-vitro procedures, and all the emotions I was having after the loss of my MIL and now facng my mom's struggles, I knew I would not be able to handle the emotions of a failed procedure. We also knew , we would not be able to afford the treatments AND go forward with an adoption if our procedure failed. At that time, neither mine or my husband's medical plans covered infertility treatment.
To be honest, deciding to adopt wasn't the hardest decision, I honestly did not care that I was not going to experience
Being pregnant, I may have thought about thatart of it for a split second, but not much more.
We wanted to find the best adoption agency we could, we attended many information meetings about both international
& domestic....
After many months of researching, attending these mtgs, I was sitting in church one Sunday and looked and there
In our bulletin was a story about a woman , who, if I did not know any better, could have been me!!
She & her husband experienced much of what we did during their years of trying to become pregnant and talked about
Their recent adoption of a little girl from China....
We attended an information meeting given by the agency that they used and our minds were made up....! We were adopting from China!

I will not submit you to all the details of our process, but suffice it to say, it was long, draining both emotionally & financially
Then, 9/11 happened... We knew we were close to our referral and our hearts just stopped... We received a call from our
Agency saying that nothing would be processed thru Beijing for a few months....
Lots of crying..... 1 year & 2 months later- we had our referral!!
I remember coming home from work for lunch and hearing a message on our answering machine to please call the agency
And I didn't call... I thought to myself " oh probably something else that had to be re-done bcause the time frame had expired"
But smething said " just call" and I did...
Our wonderful aide at the agency asked if my husband was able to be there & unfortunately, he was out of town for the day...
So, she said " I am looking at a picture of the most beautiful , chubby cheeked baby girl right now and she's yours!"
I still cry remembering how I felt, I was laughing & crying at the same time and although
I had rehearsed this in my head for what felt like years, what to say, what to ask...
I asked nothing!! Not even our little girls' name!! I was too busy crying and I said " I have to
Call my husband!" and I hung up!! Lol!
After sharing the wonderful news with my husband, I gathered my list of intended
& rehearsed questions and called our agency back.. They were all laughing!

Fast forward to today... We now have 2 beautiful girls from China!!
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Old 09-18-2012, 01:52 AM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
24,120 posts, read 32,468,260 times
Reputation: 68363
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYMD67 View Post
My husband & I were almost 30 when we got married. Both of us pretty much work aholics! We talked about having children while dating, during our engagement,etc... Not giving much thought really to our age... And possible obstacles we might face if we waited a few years to have children.
My maternal instincts didn't really kick in until about 2 years later and so we started trying.... We did some testing, lots of "talk" therapy w/ my dr, " try not to stress,etc.."
In the meantime, my MIL passed away after a very difficult, but short, battle with cancer & my mom had just been diagnosed with breast cancer.So much for not stressing......

After bloodwork, testing,etc.. And watching a very close friend suffer thru 2 failed in-vitro procedures, and all the emotions I was having after the loss of my MIL and now facng my mom's struggles, I knew I would not be able to handle the emotions of a failed procedure. We also knew , we would not be able to afford the treatments AND go forward with an adoption if our procedure failed. At that time, neither mine or my husband's medical plans covered infertility treatment.
To be honest, deciding to adopt wasn't the hardest decision, I honestly did not care that I was not going to experience
Being pregnant, I may have thought about thatart of it for a split second, but not much more.
We wanted to find the best adoption agency we could, we attended many information meetings about both international
& domestic....
After many months of researching, attending these mtgs, I was sitting in church one Sunday and looked and there
In our bulletin was a story about a woman , who, if I did not know any better, could have been me!!
She & her husband experienced much of what we did during their years of trying to become pregnant and talked about
Their recent adoption of a little girl from China....
We attended an information meeting given by the agency that they used and our minds were made up....! We were adopting from China!

I will not submit you to all the details of our process, but suffice it to say, it was long, draining both emotionally & financially
Then, 9/11 happened... We knew we were close to our referral and our hearts just stopped... We received a call from our
Agency saying that nothing would be processed thru Beijing for a few months....
Lots of crying..... 1 year & 2 months later- we had our referral!!
I remember coming home from work for lunch and hearing a message on our answering machine to please call the agency
And I didn't call... I thought to myself " oh probably something else that had to be re-done bcause the time frame had expired"
But smething said " just call" and I did...
Our wonderful aide at the agency asked if my husband was able to be there & unfortunately, he was out of town for the day...
So, she said " I am looking at a picture of the most beautiful , chubby cheeked baby girl right now and she's yours!"
I still cry remembering how I felt, I was laughing & crying at the same time and although
I had rehearsed this in my head for what felt like years, what to say, what to ask...
I asked nothing!! Not even our little girls' name!! I was too busy crying and I said " I have to
Call my husband!" and I hung up!! Lol!
After sharing the wonderful news with my husband, I gathered my list of intended
& rehearsed questions and called our agency back.. They were all laughing!

Fast forward to today... We now have 2 beautiful girls from China!!
Thank you for sharing! I know the laughing and crying thing. My story was the first and it sounds so similar.

I remember the total relief I felt when we decided to ADOPT! I know at the end,I would have a CHILD! It was a sure thing!

Best to you and your family! Sheena12
Oh and a little rep never hurt!
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