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... I am a bit worried though since I intend to travel to SA next winter, but for sure I'll skip the townships and the most dangerous regions (Kwazulu-Natal?). I won't be able to avoid Jo'Burg since it's the central hub, but I'll be super careful and streetwise (no going out at night, always looking over my shoulder in the street, barricading myself in my hotel room).
Why not avoid JB? There is nothing around JB of interest except for some fake wildlife parks that are really nothing but caged zoos. We changed planes in JB and flew to a smaller city in the eastern part of the country and just drove around from park to park, and finally up to Kruger, and likewise flew home from an airport just outside of Kruger.
Kwazulu-Natal is not a problem, again avoid the big cities and townships. If you miss that you will miss as I remember a beautiful mountain range and some great parks there as well. We also took a drive into Swaziland.
Cities like Bloemfontein, Cape Town, Port Elizabeth have substantial White Population like 30% or more. Cities like Durban have close to 25% Indian Population. South African cities also have a substantial Coloured population - mix of various ethnic groups.
I have white Portuguese friends who vacation there every year. And a local English couple came back a few months ago and were raving about how wonderful their vacation was.
Perhaps at least part of what a white visitor finds is what he or she brings with them.
We were in SA in 2010. We spent 3 days in Joburg (to get the required training/test for a SA pilot licence) then did the bush pilot training in Kunkuru (near Kruger) before flying by ourselves to several safari/diving lodges in various parts of SA including the beautiful elephant coast in Kwazulu Natal.
It was an incredible trip with wonderful memories of the landscapes, flora, fauna and the people. We learned quite a bit about the life of some privileged white folks and their humble hard working servants/workers. All the folks we met were warm and friendly. Quite a few of safari lodge workers came from Zimbawee on 'tourist visa' and had to go back home every 6 months or so. I talked to one of them who just got back after a long journey (long bus ride and a lot of hitchhiking in areas where there are no public transportation). He was in training to be a nature expert/guide tour and took pride in giving me a private tour of the lodge's botanical garden.
While there, we met several European pilots who repeat their bush pilot training often for the great experience. We would love to go back someday too.
I hear all kinds of stories about white farmers being killed and how it's acceptable to kill whites and whites only represent 9% of the population. How does it compare to being white in Europe or America?
There have been quite a few farmers being killed. Compared to the national average of non race related murders, it'll be a minority group of extremists and by no ways represents the average race relation of the rest of the country. It is definitely not acceptable to kill whites (or anyone).
We are indeed a minority but it's how I grew up so I'm pretty used to being surrounding by people of all colour. Admiteddly going overseas for the 1st time was a bit weird at first being surrounded by mostly white people XD
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Originally Posted by pigeonhole
well they are "only white people"(!!!), so most leftists will say they deserve it in a way since their forefathers engineered the apartheid system... I am a bit worried though since I intend to travel to SA next winter, but for sure I'll skip the townships and the most dangerous regions (Kwazulu-Natal?). I won't be able to avoid Jo'Burg since it's the central hub, but I'll be super careful and streetwise (no going out at night, always looking over my shoulder in the street, barricading myself in my hotel room).
I read this concern often on the forums. It's really not as bad as people make it out to be. There are dangerous areas to avoid but it comes down to common sense. Don't go down a dark street at 2am with your phone out. Don't keep valuables in plain sight while you're stopped at a street light. Don't look like a tourist. Prime Example! I was going on the cable cart going up Table Mountaint (showing an Aussie friend around) and there was a German couple in front of me. The lady had a couple of R200 notes hanging out of her pocket in view of everyone...
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Originally Posted by camaro69
Why in Gods name would you want to go their unless it's for business and you have no choice.
Agreed that Joburg isn't really a tourist destination. It's the economic hub so we only really like living there if you want to focus on your career. There are a few odd places such as Soweto, Apartheid Museum, Gold Reef City, Cradle of Humankind, Sandton which people might visit I suppose?
There are much better places to go on holiday in and around South Africa :P
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Originally Posted by NigerianNightmare
The safest province in South Africa is Limpopo province murder wise with a rate of 14 per 100,000, it is also the most African province.
There's actually very little crime in any of the more rural areas. Which makes sense considering there's nothing of value out there. Not quite sure this stat has any value then? Might as well go live in the middle of the desert or Antarctica then
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Originally Posted by kevxu
It sounds like you are confusing Zimbabwe with S.A.
We do have lots of farmer murders unfortunately )
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Originally Posted by Tall Traveler
I've worked with many white SA and become friends with a couple and most like their situation but are worried about their future going forward in SA. I even know some white Americans and Europeans that have emigrated there and love it. It is true that violent crime is abysmal in certain areas and you must be careful where you go according to what they tell me.
This sounds about right. Most people I know love it here but are worried about the future. So it's great and all living in this amazing country if our economy goes out the window and you can't afford to live let alone go and explore the rest of the world.
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I was just saying that SA isn't that dangerous depending on were you are, when I said African, I didn't just mean people but meant that going to Limpopo is like actually going to Africa and not a American style city in Africa. I was also trying to show the person to compare, for example were I live in the Houston metro right now averages a murder rate of 2-4 or less per 100,000 every year and is a large suburb and Houston itself is closer to 9-15 per 100,000 every year. Were I used to live their was a city about 120 miles east called New Orleans that had 40-50 murders for every 100,000 people but in most tourist areas is safe.
^^^^
I was just saying that SA isn't that dangerous depending on were you are, when I said African, I didn't just mean people but meant that going to Limpopo is like actually going to Africa and not a American style city in Africa. I was also trying to show the person to compare, for example were I live in the Houston metro right now averages a murder rate of 2-4 or less per 100,000 every year and is a large suburb and Houston itself is closer to 9-15 per 100,000 every year. Were I used to live their was a city about 120 miles east called New Orleans that had 40-50 murders for every 100,000 people but in most tourist areas is safe.
I think the murder rate for SA is sitting somewhere between 30-40 (would need to confirm that though). But yes I agree that it very much depends on where you go, which is the same concept anywhere in the world.
Your point about Limpopo being like "actually going to Africa". It's a stereotype I still battle with. Maybe it's more me but does it not seem like backwards thinking to expect Africa to be rural and not having advanced into the modern age? There's seems to be a global mindset about Africa, and I'm keen to hear people from other African countries opinions on this, but we all tend to get lumped into a general term of "Africa". Something happens anywhere in an African country and it's seen as "this happened in Africa". A tourist visits South Africa and they'll see their trip as visiting "Africa". Any thoughts or opinions on the matter?
I think the murder rate for SA is sitting somewhere between 30-40 (would need to confirm that though). But yes I agree that it very much depends on where you go, which is the same concept anywhere in the world.
Your point about Limpopo being like "actually going to Africa". It's a stereotype I still battle with. Maybe it's more me but does it not seem like backwards thinking to expect Africa to be rural and not having advanced into the modern age? There's seems to be a global mindset about Africa, and I'm keen to hear people from other African countries opinions on this, but we all tend to get lumped into a general term of "Africa". Something happens anywhere in an African country and it's seen as "this happened in Africa". A tourist visits South Africa and they'll see their trip as visiting "Africa". Any thoughts or opinions on the matter?
Africa has deserts, rain forests, beaches, savannahs, snow covered mountains, valleys, big metropolitan cities, industries, and small villages. I've been to Egypt and South Africa, both in Africa obviously, oh also Canary Islands, technically also part of Africa. I can't imagine 3 different places in the world as culturally or geographically different. South Africa alone has varied geography. They also can't grasp that South Africa has had "white people" living there for over 450 years. They are African.
But tourists will still define Africa from what they know from watching old Tarzan movies.
But...everyone has that issue. We in the Southern US have to deal with people who's sum total knowledge of the south comes from watching "The Dukes of Hazard" reruns.
What I mean is most of South Africa's cities are American style, in Nigeria outside of
Abuja most of the cities have West African style development. this usually means chaotic streets like most central European cities and not grids like the central parts of Cape Town and Johannesburg, also things like a "downtown" isn't really African in a city, mot African cities were based on residential areas surrounding bustling markets. When I say African that doesn't necessarily mean rural and regressive but Johannesburg's grid and downtown skyscrapers wouldn't be out of place in America. Indian style is multi story buildings spreading outwards away from the city center and although high density and tall buildings is never really skyscrapers etc. This is what I mean when I say African style city. Johannesburg is centered around a CBD with core neighborhoods and suburbia, most African cities don't gradually lose density like that, usually the term Suburbia can't really apply as usually it is dense city that almost suddenly drops of to straight rural areas. In SA style cities rich people live on the outskirts of the city like American cities and a few core neighborhoods
Nothwistanding those threats of violence, I'd still want to visit SA. After all, I survived countries such as Mexico, Egypt, Costa Rica , the Philippines...I doubt SA is much worse if one uses caution.
why? did the Abu Sayyaf kidnapped you when you were in the Philippines?
Google up "South African Farm Murders" and see what you get.White people get murdered and black cops don't even care,
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