Why Some Black Americans have emotional/spiritual breakdowns visiting the Slave Castles in Ghana? (train, similarities)
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Listen from around 13:00. And also ask people whether this woman doesn't sound as if she is from the Caribbean. If you don't think that she sounds like a Caribbean woman you really shouldn't be opining on this.
Black American culture is dominant in global black culture because WHITE American culture is also dominant. The two work together and spread via the same chassis. Black American culture impacts global blacks because we can relate to it.
Now run along and teach Africans how to be "African".
Nigeria dominates African cultures now with its Nollywood and Afropop.
And of course Malian music is very heavily influenced by that of North Africa. There are strong two way cultural interactions between Morocco and Mali. Nigeria is Nigeria. Fewer pre colonial external influences.
Nigerian music and Pidgin English. I understand most of what he is saying when he speaks Pidgin. Why? Because I understand the various Caribbean creoles.
If one does a continuum from the most to least African of the major Afro descent groups in the Americas Haiti is nearest to the African continuum, black America is the furthest (which is why your intersectionality is with North African influenced Malian music). The major Caribbean and Latin American black groups fall in between.
And of course being African is more than just music.
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Black American culture is dominant in global black culture because WHITE American culture is also dominant. The two work together and spread via the same chassis. Black American culture impacts global blacks because we can relate to it.
Is this really relevant?It doesnt change the fact that when black people were doing Jazz and Blues, it wasnt till artist like Elvis came along and exploited the sound for whotes to hear. No matter how it got around the world ,its irrelevant as to who created it
1. Gullah culture is often portrayed as the most "African" aspect of black American culture. Seen in fact as an outlier. So cannot be used as evidence of how "African" black Americans are. In fact Gullah culture is more accurately seen as being a CARIBBEAN culture as South Carolina was initially colonized out of Barbados (not the UK) and Bajan influences remain very apparent. Hearing old Gullah people speak reminds me of a bunch of old Bajan women.
2. The notion that deep rural South is more African than deep rural Jamaica is a joke.
In fact there is a strong interface between the popular musics of Jamaica and Trinidad with West/West Central African music and dance. We can easily dance to each others music and much of Afropop can fit right into a Caribbean vibe, to the point where the listener mightn't even know that it is Nigerian. Pidgin English and all.
Then there are the dialects spoken in the English speaking Caribbean, which closely relate to the pidgin Englishes of West Africa. Once my ear gets attuned to it I can understand that which is spoken in Nigeria, Liberia and Sierra Leone. Gullah is in fact one of the LEAST "African" of the Afro Caribbean creole Englishes. Its relation to those of the Bahamas and Barbados (seen as having the lowest African retentions) is clear.
African retentions in black America are less for two reasons.
1. The period of importation of enslaved peoples ended earlier, with most arriving prior to 1775. Heavy importation of slaves into the British West Indian colonies continued right until it ended.
2. When slavery ended about 1/3 of the newly freed were born in Africa. By 1865 (almost 60 years after the end of the Transatlantic slave trade) virtually none were African born, and few had any direct knowledge of their African born ancestors.
Then I can add that a similar climate allowed more African retentions to remain. But you can ask Africans themselves. While they do not consider Caribbean people to be "African" they see them as being considerably more "African" than are black Americans. Caribbean people can negotiate contemporary African culture more easily than can most black Americans.
Black Americans have a unique history and heritage and are very influential in the global black world. But of the major African Diasporic groups black Americans are the LEAST African. It is what it is because of their heritage.
Also "African" culture is more than just drumming and praying to traditional gods (which will be why you think that Afro Cubans are so African. I have interacted significantly with several Afro Cubans. Not only did they think that I was one of them (speaking to me in Spanish) but I saw them as a cultural cross between Dominican and Anglo Caribbean culture.
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Gullah culture is often portrayed as the most "African" aspect of black American culture. Seen in fact as an outlier. So cannot be used as evidence of how "African" black Americans are. In fact Gullah culture is more accurately seen as being a CARIBBEAN culture as South Carolina was initially colonized out of Barbados (not the UK) and Bajan influences remain very apparent. Hearing old Gullah people speak reminds me of a bunch of old Bajan women.
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The Gullah-Geechee are the descendants of African people who were brought to this country to do slave labor on coastal plantations stretching from Wilmington, North Carolina, to Jacksonville, Florida. In the Carolinas, these people are known as Gullahs; in Georgia and Florida, they are called Geechees.
Gullah dialects, which combine English with the languages of African tribes, emerged as a result of the complicated patterns of forced immigration and displacement that began as slaves from Africa were brought to this area. The place name, Geechee, derived from the Ogeechee River near Savannah, was used to designate the language and slaves of Coastal Georgia.
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Indeed, rice is what forms the special link between the Gullah and the people of Sierra Leone. During the 1700s the American colonists in South Carolina and Georgia discovered that rice would grow well in the moist, semitropical country bordering their coastline. But the American colonists had no experience with the cultivation of rice, and they needed African slaves who knew how to plant, harvest, and process this difficult crop. The white plantation owners purchased slaves from various parts of Africa, but they greatly preferred slaves from what they called the “Rice Coast” or “Windward Coast”—the traditional rice-growing region of West Africa, stretching from Senegal down to Sierra Leone and Liberia. The plantation owners were willing to pay higher prices for slaves from this area, and Africans from the Rice Coast were almost certainly the largest group of slaves imported into South Carolina and Georgia during the 18th century.
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The rice plantation zone of coastal South Carolina and Georgia was the only place in the Americas where Sierra Leonean slaves came together in large enough numbers and over a long enough period of time to leave a significant linguistic and cultural impact. While Nigerians may point to Brazil, Cuba, and Haiti as places where Nigerian culture is still evident, Sierra Leoneans can look to the Gullah of South Carolina and Georgia as a kindred people sharing many common elements of speech, custom, culture, and cuisine.
Then I can add that a similar climate allowed more African retentions to remain. But you can ask Africans themselves. While they do not consider Caribbean people to be "African" they see them as being considerably more "African" than are black Americans. Caribbean people can negotiate contemporary African culture more easily than can most black Americans.
This would make sense as the the Caribbean isnt as diverse and in present day are largely predominately non European unlike the US.
However if you are to insulate that because of this African Americans have less of a connection to the African continent ,its a matter of semantics and an exercise in futility.
I think that you reveal your US centric views. Black Americans, if they wish to build relationships with other blacks really need to learn to stop projecting the image of the Ugly American. Leave that to white Americans. Listen and learn from others and stop pushing your experiences.
Black Caribbean people not only fought for improvements within their own societies, but also even within the USA. Why do you think that the name "Marcus Garvey" can be found all over the USA? Malcolm X's mother was a Grenadian and his father a member of the Garveyite movement. Many West Indians and their offspring were involvement in the Civil Rights movement or other efforts to improve the black condition in the USA. Shirley Chisholm is a name that you out to know about. Constance Baker Motley was very involved within the NAACP Legal Defense fund winning many cases.
In fact many of the people who you might think are black American often have black immigrant roots.
Black Brazilians and black Cubans are way more dominant in their national cultures than black Americans are in the USA. Even white Cubans and Brazilians admit to it, and are proud to participate in it. Brazil and Cuba both have an African face that the USA doesn't have.
Black American culture is global only because AMERICAN culture is global. As US culture spreads it brings with it black American.
But let me ask you a question. Can black immigrants utilize the economic and social inroads that black Americans have built to facilitate their upward mobility in the USA. No. We are BOTH in the same situation, fighting for inclusion, trying to avoid being stuck at the bottom of the barrel. In fact to what degree that black Americans collectively benefit from the spread of black American art forms? Individual black Americans do, but does the black American population as a whole benefit? No. Its white dominated corporate media which capitalizes ands benefits from black American creativity.
I missed this garbage post but I already answered in another post.You drip in security and animosity of native African Americans. You really think you know everything about someone based on where they are from?
You are no better than a racist but worse. Dont make assumptions on what you think I said or know or even where Ive been
By the way I have many Brazilian friends as well. Many of them identify as Afro. Its a mixed bag on how they feel about their black experience but one friend of mine who I feel is more astute has give n me real clarity,
He is light skinned self described Afro Brazilian but appears as an average Brazilian.
He has told me stories how he has been with his dark skinned brother or cousins and have been treated very completely different than he
He tells me that Afro Caribbeans are beginning to wake up and see they are not getting a fair shake.
They are far underrepresented in government business etc.Far beyond less than what he sees when has lived in America.
I know a girl from Bahia and she contacted me as I am over the Atlanta region of an international organization that has over 14 million members worldwide that promotes cultural exchanges of people who travel.
She wanted to come to Atlanta as it had a reputation of sorts for black achievement. We talked about life as a black person in Bahia which as a reputation for being dangerous and poor due to it being the only Brazilian state where most descendants can trace direct roots to Africa.
Its been my desire to go to Bahia and see this wonderful place.
I have a friend from Cuba who was just over my house with his Aunt and Grandmorther who I have had countless conversations about.
His 84 year old grandmother was born in Jamaica and came to Cuba as a little girl. I had asked her what it was like before and after the revolution.
Her experience vs my friend who is her 26 year old grandson are totally different as he just sees things different.
I could go on and on bit for you to think because I am African American im simply unaware of the plights of others is so off based and quite frankly prejudiced and just so ignorant.
I dont know who did it to you but you need some serious help
I think that you reveal your US centric views. Black Americans, if they wish to build relationships with other blacks really need to learn to stop projecting the image of the Ugly American. Leave that to white Americans. Listen and learn from others and stop pushing your experiences.
Black Caribbean people not only fought for improvements within their own societies, but also even within the USA. Why do you think that the name "Marcus Garvey" can be found all over the USA? Malcolm X's mother was a Grenadian and his father a member of the Garveyite movement. Many West Indians and their offspring were involvement in the Civil Rights movement or other efforts to improve the black condition in the USA. Shirley Chisholm is a name that you out to know about. Constance Baker Motley was very involved within the NAACP Legal Defense fund winning many cases.
In fact many of the people who you might think are black American often have black immigrant roots.
Black Brazilians and black Cubans are way more dominant in their national cultures than black Americans are in the USA. Even white Cubans and Brazilians admit to it, and are proud to participate in it. Brazil and Cuba both have an African face that the USA doesn't have.
Black American culture is global only because AMERICAN culture is global. As US culture spreads it brings with it black American.
But let me ask you a question. Can black immigrants utilize the economic and social inroads that black Americans have built to facilitate their upward mobility in the USA. No. We are BOTH in the same situation, fighting for inclusion, trying to avoid being stuck at the bottom of the barrel. In fact to what degree that black Americans collectively benefit from the spread of black American art forms? Individual black Americans do, but does the black American population as a whole benefit? No. Its white dominated corporate media which capitalizes ands benefits from black American creativity.
Too add because you really annoyed me,I clearly said "Western Countries". Please stop preaching maybe you will learn something yourself
I found this very interesting.Boris Kudjoe who is of Ghanan and Austrian roots was asked to help promote tourism in Ghana, He organized a trip of over 40 black celebrities to go experience Ghana.
Is this really relevant?It doesnt change the fact that when black people were doing Jazz and Blues, it wasnt till artist like Elvis came along and exploited the sound for whotes to hear. No matter how it got around the world ,its irrelevant as to who created it
Actually white artists and other musicians have had a long association with black American culture, seeking to appropriate it. Research the Jazz Age if you doubt me.
My point to you was if American culture wasn't globally dominant, black American culture wouldn't be dominant in the Global black space either. What carries black American style global is that it is viewed WITHIN the context of US culture, and has made huge contributions to it. Even if you look at soul music of the 70s look and see who was playing the strings in the orchestra and who many of the song writers and arrangers were.
Black American culture is AMERICAN, NOT AFRICAN! Yes its musical styles are built on a chassis with African roots, but it has moved further away from it than have other major Afro Diaspora groups. This because it lost touch with it, and wasn't re-fertilized with massive numbers of new enslaved peoples, as was the case in the Caribbean and Brazil. It has had a long history of interaction with "mainstream" American style, to the point where if there was no black American style, there would be a radically different US style.
WOW.Let me tell you something.I dont need to understand anything. What you dont understand is that you and your delusions are devoid of any real knowledge of Afro Americans and their passage to the Americas.lp
"Western" societies include all of the Americas as well as Europe. Most blacks in the Americas live outside of the USA, and most don't even speak English. We all have a different story to tell and a different set of challenges. You certainly cannot compare blacks in France where most blacks are foreign born, or French born with foreign parents. with the US black. A nation where there are no ethnic statistics so people don't know how many blacks who live there, with the USA, a nation which was 20% black in 1776 and which has had some of the most intensely brutal forms of racism in the Americas/Western Europe.
And yes there is a difference between how black Americans, in places where there is a large black immigrant presence, relate to black immigrants, than in all of those places that you refer to. where the black immigrant presence is small. In some of those places black immigrants will tell you that they encounter as much ignorance from black Americans, as they do from white ones. I have a brother in TX and I have encountered black Americans from all over the USA.
You might know that in some places when American blacks refer to "blacks" they don't mean Africans, Haitians or Jamaicans. They mean ADOS. Foreign blacks are "weird people with accents and strange foods and music". FL is thick with tensions between the various black groups. And yes I know both American and Caribbean blacks who live there.
I actually find some black Americans to be no more open minded in listening to black immigrants than white Americans are interested in listening to black Americans. This fact will anger you but it is a truth. The black Americans most guilty of this are those who live in the South and Midwest where black immigrant populations are smaller. I will never forget the brother of a friend of mine who came from the Midwest. When he went back home who told tales of NYC being full of these people who "look black, but then they open their mouths and have a thick accent". He didn't view these people within his context of what being "black" is.
So this notion that we are all one happy black family is silly. Even among Africans there are issues. Just chat with an Igbo about Yorubas, or talk to a South African about Nigerians. And there are still remaining issues between blacks from the English speaking Caribbean and Haitians.
While there are people from each of these various black groups who step outside of their bubbles and try to develop relationships with others, to claim that "we are all this big happy family, who all love each other, and are all alike, just because we have a vaguely similar appearance" is nonsense. Until we admit that there are serious issues that divide we aren't going to develop the ties that bind.
And yes too often black Americans irritate others by forcing down their views on other blacks and not understanding how societies differ.
Its also a joke to tell a foreign black that we don't know American blacks. Do you know that to non blacks they don't see the difference nor do they care to learn. I am called "African American" and if I refuse that title whites get confused and many black Americans get angry. What we experience living in this country is not that different from what black Americans experience. We live with black Americans and so we have ample opportunity to learn about them.
I will suggest that many black Americans, feel that they are AMERICAN, so see no obligation to learn about us. When I arrived here in the 1980s I was told to stop listening to "jungle music". These were NOT whites who told me this!
I missed this garbage post but I already answered in another post.You drip in security and animosity of native African Americans. You really think you know everything about someone based on where they are from?
lp
Of course there are 35 million ADOS in this country and you represent 100% of them? So you can speak to 100% of the encounters that black Americans have with black immigrants. Its all about your experience and who you know and what you think. Don't know you and I have never met you But I have met loads of black Americans from CA all the way to Boston, so I think that I know something on that. From the "bougie" right through to the "ghetto". From those who love Trump, right thru to the Bernie lovers. From those who are intrigued with Caribbean and African blacks right through to those who detest us. Met a broad spectrum.
You don't speak for all of them so your personal offense reveals something that you must work out.
In fact you make my point about AMERICAN blacks sometimes behaving like their white peers. Rather than listening you immediately call me a racist because some of my views don't appeal to you. You don't even know how much that sounds like "whitesplaining" when whites similarly refuse to listen to what blacks have to say!
You would be better chattering about the ignorance that many black immigrants bring to their encounters with black Americans, often repeating the same stereotypes that they hear (lazy, welfare dependent, etc.) As well as the fact that some don't even stop to think that growing up in a white dominant society where racism is part of the heritage is not the same as being born in a majority black nation that is at least superficially black run. I will loudly admit that to those facts.
And of course you will note that of the regions with the largest black populations the numbers taken to the USA was among the smallest. Even as the USA arguably now has the largest black population in the Americas (Brazilian racial definitions of who is blacks is vague).
Do you know that more enslaved peoples were taken to Barbados than to ALL of the USA? And on top of that most arrived when it was a British colony, so by the time slavery ended there were virtually none who had direct connections to Africa. This explains why there are less obvious "Africanisms" than in Cuba, Jamaica, Haiti, Brazil or Guyana and Suriname.
The fact that people make so much about Geechees just shows this. Geechee/Gullah people are just plain and straight ordinary Barbadians in how they speak and present themselves. What is "African" about Gullah speech is the adaptations of English pronunciation to suit speakers of African language. This being put on top of a West African grammatical chassis. SAME story that one can see ANYWHERE in the English speaking Caribbean even the LEAST obviously "African" places like Barbados and the Bahamas. Jamaican dialects are much more "African" than are the Geechees.
Enslaved peoples were sourced out of Africa based upon their perceived skilled sets. SC brought in those out of Liberia/SL because of their rice growing.
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