[MinivanDriver]

Originally Posted by EscAlaMike

Okay, fair enough. I'm not being dishonest. I must be misunderstanding you.

I still stand by my point. I concede that rural Alabama used to have a working class and a shiftless class. We can say that since the 90s/00s the working class has largely dried up or moved away. The shiftless class remains. How do we fix that? I refer you back to my previous posts.

Your previous posts are unsubstantiated, especially given how the population of those Alabama counties have not declined at nearly the rate of job loss. Are Working Class and Shiftless Class boxes you can check off on a Census form or something?

What's more, you ignored my other point that the general decline of blue collar jobs nationwide (37% since 2000) is very well documented. What happened in Alabama happened nationwide. There is literally nowhere the working class could go.

Good grief. I'm not a Democrat or a Liberal, but I know mindless nonsense when I hear it. Turn off Fox News or whatever propaganda organ you tune into every night and read up on what happened to rural America from a policy and economics standpoint.

[EscAlaMike]

Originally Posted by MinivanDriver

Your previous posts are unsubstantiated, especially given how the population of those Alabama counties have gone largely unchanged.

What's more, you ignored my other point that the general decline of blue collar jobs nationwide (37% since 2000) is very well documented. What happened in Alabama happened nationwide. There is literally nowhere the working class could go.

Good grief. I'm not a Democrat or a Liberal, but I know mindless nonsense when I hear it. Turn off Fox News or whatever propaganda organ you tune into every night and read up on what happened to rural America from a policy and economics standpoint.

The topic of this thread is specific to Alabama. The dynamics of rural Alabama are very different from the dynamics of rural Ohio, New York, etc.

If I'm spouting "mindless nonsense", maybe you could be a little more specific.

The fact is that there is an element of rural Alabama's population who will not work. They didn't work when there were manufacturing jobs, and they won't work now.

This is the subset that is "holding Alabama back" as the OP states. What do we do about this? I made my recommendations, and they are centered on strengthening the family.

What are your ideas?

[MinivanDriver]

Originally Posted by EscAlaMike

You sure make a lot of ignorant assumptions, and not only in this sub-forum.

The topic of this thread is specific to Alabama. The dynamics of rural Alabama are very different from the dynamics of rural Ohio, New York, etc.

If I'm spouting "mindless nonsense", maybe you could be a little more specific.

The fact is that there is an element of rural Alabama's population who will not work. They didn't work when there were manufacturing jobs, and they won't work now.

This is the subset that is "holding Alabama back" as the OP states. What do we do about this? I made my recommendations, and they are centered on strengthening the family.

What are your ideas?

Weird how arguments that are based on statistics provided by the Federal Reserve are assumptive, but your Culture War arguments are not.


And, once again, you miss points. The evaporation of blue collar jobs is nationwide. So a guy who worked in an Alabama factory that shut down couldn't exactly pack up and get a similar job elsewhere. I don't know why this concept is so hard for you to grasp.

Sure, there is a small fraction of the population that avoids work. But the large majority? Nope. Hey, don't let nuance get in the way of your Holier-than-thou brand of fun.



By the way, I already gave my ideas for solving this issue not once, but twice, in this thread. But you're more interested in sermonizing.

[EscAlaMike]

Originally Posted by MinivanDriver

Weird how arguments that are based on statistics provided by the Federal Reserve are assumptive, but your Culture War arguments are not.


And, once again, you miss points. The evaporation of blue collar jobs is nationwide. So a guy who worked in an Alabama factory that shut down couldn't exactly pack up and get a similar job elsewhere. I don't know why this concept is so hard for you to grasp.

Sure, there is a small fraction of the population that avoids work. But the large majority? Nope. Hey, don't let nuance get in the way of your Holier-than-thou brand of fun.



By the way, I already gave my ideas for solving this issue not once, but twice, in this thread. But you're more interested in sermonizing.

Let’s back up because I think we’re talking past each other. You’ve also accused me of dishonesty multiple times which isn’t fair. We have a misunderstanding.

The very legitimate problem of the “evaporation of blue collar jobs” is by no means unique to Alabama, as you have conceded. Since this is a topic specifically related to Alabama, I’m trying to point out problems unique to Alabama (and probably other Deep South states) that might not necessarily apply elsewhere.

I submit that much of the rural population (NOT a majority - I never said majority) of Alabama has for multiple generations been predisposed to shiftlessness by cycles and patterns of both a lack of stable family structures and an unwillingness to work. This unwillingness has many causes, one of which has been a lack of the perceived need to work. This has created a lack of virtue among much of the populace in that there is no accountability (mostly for the men). This lack of virtue is manifested in the large-scale failure of them to provide for and raise their children.

As I said earlier - virtually nobody, no matter their class, wants to work. I.e. most people would quit their jobs if they won a big lottery. We work because either (a) we have to, or (b) it has been instilled in us that’s it’s the morally right thing to do. Both (a) and (b) are missing for many rural Alabamians, resulting in a cycle of generational poverty.

[OldBankhead]

This far right ultra conservative stuff is just nonsense. Some interesting points have been raised here.
Yes they assume these regions are full of able bodied minority 25 year olds built like pro athletes who just flat out refuse to work. There's no such thing as old, unskilled, disabled, physically challenged people in their scenarios. They should all just learn to do something else, move, or just disappear entirely because quite frankly, they don't want to see, hear or talk about them anymore. Acknowledging their existence makes them angry so the threats of "cutting them off" start coming out. Nevermind the fact that this could literally starve people who have no means of supporting themselves even if they desperately want to be functioning members of society.

I think the current labor shortage in fast food relates to this discussion. There's labor issues everywhere, but it seems fast food triggers the ultra right a bit more than most. Remember how they said these minimum wage jobs were temporary? Remember how they said they were going to replace them all with robots when they asked for more money? Well now they're gone and places begging people to come slave over a hot grill can't get people to do it even though they are starting at 11, 12, 14 even 15 dollars per hour. Suddenly raising minimum wage isn't even being talked about any more. It's practically moot. These workers went and found other jobs because of the pandemic and no, even dropping the piddly $3-400 a week federal aid didn't force them to come back and make your Big Mac.

We know automation is coming. We know certain jobs will become obsolete and disappear soon. We know Wall Street sold us out to China and 5000 mile supply lines are stupid especially when a pandemic knocks out microchip shortage making electronics and cars and practically everything hard to get.

The problem is this stuff is devastating to rural America. They don't have the options to survive a factory closing, or agriculture jobs going away and NEVER COMING BACK. We're going to have to pay for this one way or another. Either pay for free technical training, pay for people to stay at home and take care of their kids. Pay to take care of people who are broken, disabled, and unsuited to stand on their feet all day and flip burgers or stack boxes or drive a truck. There's plenty enough wealth, profit and prosperity in this country to do this without it directly coming out of your pocket.

[EscAlaMike]

Originally Posted by OldBankhead

This far right ultra conservative stuff is just nonsense. Some interesting points have been raised here.
Yes they assume these regions are full of able bodied minority 25 year olds built like pro athletes who just flat out refuse to work. There's no such thing as old, unskilled, disabled, physically challenged people in their scenarios. They should all just learn to do something else, move, or just disappear entirely because quite frankly, they don't want to see, hear or talk about them anymore. Acknowledging their existence makes them angry so the threats of "cutting them off" start coming out. Nevermind the fact that this could literally starve people who have no means of supporting themselves even if they desperately want to be functioning members of society.

You're so out of touch. Why do you so arrogantly dismiss the thoughts of people who actually LIVE in poor, rural Alabama?

We're not talking about old or disabled people here. Neither are we talking about people who "desperately want to be functioning members of society". Those people can be found everywhere.

The problems I have pointed out are very real.

[OldBankhead]

Originally Posted by EscAlaMike

You're so out of touch. Why do you so arrogantly dismiss the thoughts of people who actually LIVE in poor, rural Alabama?

We're not talking about old or disabled people here. Neither are we talking about people who "desperately want to be functioning members of society". Those people can be found everywhere.

The problems I have pointed out are very real.

I don't know what you are talking about. I am an advocate for helping poor, rural Alabama.

There's always going to be people that are lazy, underachieve or do something underhanded to get by. We just don't need to paint a broad brush and punish everyone by pulling away aid just so we can crack down on the baddies.

[hackles]

offer all of the women between age 15 and 45 10k to get sterilized. Most would jump on the deal and we'd all be WAY ahead. Not just rural, ALL women. In the third world, 3k would be plenty.

[OldBankhead]

Lol. Why not men? What's your magic number? A Klondike bar?

[Surge0001]

Originally Posted by hackles

offer all of the women between age 15 and 45 10k to get sterilized. Most would jump on the deal and we'd all be WAY ahead. Not just rural, ALL women. In the third world, 3k would be plenty.

Wtf?