Why doesn't it work anymore to "live off the land?" (Anchorage: apartment, mortgage)

[Metlakatla]

I should say -- you can grow good gardens in parts of Alaska, but every time the subject of survival or self-sufficient living comes up, I always sound like the Grinch when it comes to gardening. That's because self sufficiency requires an excellent use of time, especially the farther north you get. The time you spend cultivating a garden might be better spent on other aspects of living. That's the whole problem of self sufficiency in tough environments -- getting the most out of your time. Personally, I'd be out picking every last berry I could for my winter vitamins because you get more for less time, and there is no guarantee that your garden won't get ravaged by weather or wildlife.

But then, that's an absolute pioneer lifestyle where you'll die of scurvy if you don't put up adequate winter nutrition. Interior Natives got their vitamin C from dried and frozen berries but also by eating the organ meat of certain animals. Gardens make more sense for those trying to be semi self sufficient these days because when it comes down to it, they've got access to other food sources.

Alaska used to offer pretty good support services for homeschoolers, but I'm not sure of the status of that anymore. Maybe someone who knows will chime in.

ETA it's kinda nice to see someone with a brain posting here about wanting a self sufficient lifestyle in Alaska instead of the usual dreamers who scoff at the advice they're offered. I think you should follow your dream, OP -- hell, I'm a native Oregonian and know the state well -- if you can survive in SW Oregon, you'll do fine in Homer. Not sure about housing and stuff, but when the time comes, I could ask a good friend of mine there for ideas.

[Haolejohn]

Originally Posted by MouseBandit

But all the folks you read about during the 50s, homesteading and proving up the land, they made it. Were they not truly self sufficient in the way I'm thinking? It doesn't sound like many of them had outside jobs or loads of money to buy food items. Their descriptions and stories sound like hunting, fishing, gathering, and the occasional garden and root cellar got them by. Am I just seeing what I want to see in those accounts?

I'll respond later when I'm not on phone.

[Frostnip]

Alaska away from some coastal regions just does not produce sufficient calories per acre for a non-migratory population of humans. Subsistence in the form of plopping down a cabin and subsisting never did work here; there's a reason Native populations away from some coastal communities were highly mobile. The people who were financially successful in the gold rush and homesteading era were mostly the people selling imported food, supplies and services to the miners and homesteaders.

It's possible to get a good deal of one's food and resources from the land but it's a full-time job to do so in a really meaningful way here, because the land is hard. Which can be a problem because doing so requires things that cost cash economy money, like gas for vehicles and supplies for gardening, so you also need a reliable and sizeable income stream, and there are only so many hours in a day.

[Haolejohn]

coastal living is totally different than interior living. Look at coastal bush communities vs interior communities. big difference. What was the main draw for coastal regions? Sealife (Salmon, Whales, etc...) and for the interior it was more about following the food source. There is obviously more to it. Moose aren't as common near the coast and in the interior, they are more of a challenge to get to. One major advantage of the coastal region could be the salmon. I put a net out this summer for an hour and I had more sockeye than I would catch all fall on the Yukon. Granted I didn't fish nearly as much on the Yukon as I do now, but the moose hunting was way better and I preferred to fill our freezer with moose meat vs salmon (wife isn't to fond of salmon). Now that I live in the Bristol Bay area, salmon has replaced moose meat. I've only seen 3 moose since I have been here, but I'm not stressing b/c we have plenty of fish put away.

I'd love to operate a garden, and I am talking with those that already do in this area. It ain't cheap to maintain. Trees for heat? Not cost efficient at all. I am not sure if there is the perfect location in Alaska where you can get all your meat, veggies, and fuel source from the land. One area may provide 2/3 or 1/3 of those. And let's not forget the water...

[Metlakatla]

Originally Posted by Haolejohn

coastal living is totally different than interior living. Look at coastal bush communities vs interior communities. big difference. What was the main draw for coastal regions? Sealife (Salmon, Whales, etc...) and for the interior it was more about following the food source. There is obviously more to it. Moose aren't as common near the coast and in the interior, they are more of a challenge to get to. One major advantage of the coastal region could be the salmon. I put a net out this summer for an hour and I had more sockeye than I would catch all fall on the Yukon. Granted I didn't fish nearly as much on the Yukon as I do now, but the moose hunting was way better and I preferred to fill our freezer with moose meat vs salmon (wife isn't to fond of salmon). Now that I live in the Bristol Bay area, salmon has replaced moose meat. I've only seen 3 moose since I have been here, but I'm not stressing b/c we have plenty of fish put away.

I'd love to operate a garden, and I am talking with those that already do in this area. It ain't cheap to maintain. Trees for heat? Not cost efficient at all. I am not sure if there is the perfect location in Alaska where you can get all your meat, veggies, and fuel source from the land. One area may provide 2/3 or 1/3 of those. And let's not forget the water...

It's doable in some parts of SE; indigenous tribes did it for centuries. Not much moose, none, in some places, but besides fish, there's plenty of waterfowl, deer like rats, berries, sea asparagus, and forest herbs. Coastal Native societies from the panhandle on down to Oregon had year-round, established villages instead of following food. Coastal temps mean you don't need nearly as much wood for fuel.

In fact, the Tlinglits had enough free time to develop an extremely rich carving tradition. Almost every single household item, piece of clothing, whatever, was a work of art in its own right. That's how rich the land was; they had the leisure time to create art because they weren't spending all their time and energy procuring food. Not many primitive societies can say the same, at least not to the extent that happened in SE and BC coastal villages.

[Haolejohn]

Originally Posted by Metlakatla

It's doable in some parts of SE; indigenous tribes did it for centuries. Not much moose, none, in some places, but besides fish, there's plenty of waterfowl, deer like rats, berries, sea asparagus, and forest herbs. Coastal Native societies from the panhandle on down to Oregon had year-round, established villages instead of following food. Coastal temps mean you don't need nearly as much wood for fuel.

In fact, the Tlinglits had enough free time to develop an extremely rich carving tradition. Almost every single household item, piece of clothing, whatever, was a work of art in its own right. That's how rich the land was; they had the leisure time to create art because they weren't spending all their time and energy procuring food. Not many primitive societies can say the same, at least not to the extent that happened in SE and BC coastal villages.

I knew SE is totally different. I know nothing about it other than the native cultures thrived.

[HannahTravels]

It is totally possible to provide all of your own protein living in SE. One of my acquaintances goes out for a few weeks every year and does all of his hunting, fishing, etc. Everything he gets provides meat for his family for the year and they don't buy any grocery store meat. That being said, you have to have a job that is going to allow you to take the time necessary to pursue this kind of thing.

Also, while I know people who do all of their own hunting and fishing, I do not know anyone who is totally "self-sufficient." Gardening can be good in SE, but the weather is pretty fickle. Berries, herbs, and other such things can be gathered…but, have you ever gathered blueberries by hand? It takes a LONG time and the canning process isn't a short thing either. My husband and I can blueberries and fireweed, but it is time consuming and sometimes there just isn't time available to fit enough of it in to last us through the whole year.

[Metlakatla]

There are ways to speed the blueberry picking process up so that it actually takes very little time. Most people I know freeze them rather than can them. It's so easy. Some people dry them. Of course, there are some years when there just aren't many berries so it doesn't matter what you do.

[HannahTravels]

Originally Posted by Metlakatla

There are ways to speed the blueberry picking process up so that it actually takes very little time. Most people I know freeze them rather than can them. It's so easy. Some people dry them. Of course, there are some years when there just aren't many berries so it doesn't matter what you do.

Yeah, we freeze a lot of ours too. I'm curious how you speed the process up for picking? Hand-picking, even just a quart sized bag, always takes me a little bit. Not an eternity or anything, but it isn't something that I could run out and do before work.

[Metlakatla]

If I were surviving off the land in SE, I'd use a berry rake.

I am not advocating the use of berry rakes for the casual berry picker. If used incorrectly, they can damage the plants -- but then, not as much as the bears and some humans do, and they actually cause little damage if used properly. I think the Tlinglits used a wooden tool similar to what's available today. Also, gathering berries worked for them in ways it doesn't work for us because of how our time is structured.

Again, my comments are specific to surviving off the land.

ETA another reason it's tough to completely live off the land is that doing so requires a communal effort, and First World humans don't live that way.