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"Darling." Don't sugar coat it buddy, Cuba was an ex-colony from America's imperial age and when the United States granted it independence in 1902, it did so with lots of strings attached, like a constitution with a clause written into stipulating the US could intervene in Cuban affairs if it didn't like what was going on, the permanent instillation of military presence at places like Guantanomo Bay, special rights for Americans, the lack of a right to negociate with any countries other than the USA etc.
Ok, buddy, tell me what country is totally free from the all mighty USA. Even Switzerland with all its bank secrecy and more, has to break itself to the old pimp uncle Sam. Is Switzerland a colony of the US? Is Germany Uncle Sam's prostitute? I do not think so.
So far The US has intervened in every country they have seen fit for the last 60 years. Are those all colonies of the US nowadays?
Like a person, a country cannot function isolated. By law of nature, you will associate to those that best represent your interests. Will you say China is a Colony of the US because its main trader partner is Uncle Sam?
Who told you Cuba could not negotiate with other Countries? Yes, it could, but second and third places where far away from the third. Would you negotiate with Spain while you have the biggest market in the world only 90 miles away?
Yeah, yeah, you may comeback with, " but Cuba was the brothel of the US". Now it is Canada, Spain, and Italy's brothel. And you know that Canadians as well as the rest do not even tip. So go figure. I'm talking about countries that before 1959 were in the dump or below the standards of the time.
Cuba was independent in name only, it was still a defacto colony in 1949 and did not have true self determination, which is a major reason for the situation that we find ourselves in today. The relationship between the USA and Cuba was not that of a child and its doting parent - it was a vassal state, and we shouldn't pretend it wasn't.
Yeah, just like Canada, Europe, Asia and the rest of South America. Those who do not follow, look where their population stands today, North Korea, Iran, Cuba, Venezuela, and the rest of other ****ty places. No Sir, thank you, I will stay with the US. Look Puerto Rico, so much for colony but they do not want to leave the vassal state.
Cuba doesn't have a high standard of living even for Latin American standards. Sure, they do have a high life expectancy and a few other interesting facts, but people often forget that Fidel Castro didn't took over an Haiti in 1959. Cuba was already the richest and most developed place not just in Latin America, but in the entire tropical world. Havana was much more developed and modern than Madrid!
Once we start through that reality, its easy to see why Cuba has actually gone downhill through the years. A few improvements, but it was not as if they were starting from rock bottom or even close to that. There's even an outbreak of cholera in Havana right now.
The only people for whom Cuba works are those in the upper levels of the political circle. Everyone else is screwed, which is a problem for a country that claims everyone is the same. The Cuban political class has access to everything from the West, from capitalist countries. They live a life of luxury and limitless consumption, they even travel abroad while telling the people that all Cubans live alike. Such a shame and I'm sure most Cuban would be repulsed, if they actually knew how the plutocrats live.
They live like kings in the land of socialism, rations, and permanent scarcity. They have access to simple things that you and I consume everyday, yet the average Cuban can't even dream of.
The monthly income of a doctor is a mere $25! Its the only country in the world where taxi drivers for foreign tourists (from capitalist countries, of course) earn more than professionals!
Unbelievable and yet, so true!
This an excellent argument. People tend to compare pre-Castro Cuba with the actual Cuba. Different variables will lead to erroneous results. In order to gain a fair result one has to compare Cuba with other countries of the time, and compare them again but with actual data. Not even Argentina, the South American Cuban counterpart back in the 50s is so messed up nowadays, and that's a lot to say, because Argentina is currently a mess!
Based on the American psych, anything associated with communism is rather grim. Although true, we never acknowledge the standard of living. Countries with free market opportunities do have poor standards of living in certain pockets of their populations. Haiti and Mexico are examples. These two countries are void of stalinism but are plagued with corruption and low standards of living.
Really - when did you last visit? I was there for the Hemmingway Tournament last year. I found sqaulor similar to that experienced of the residents of Haiti. After the Russians left, they took with them anything of value. The lands which were owned by wealthy families were in ruin as the Russians left their communes. The old cars are there, because they have nothing else. I saw a 50's era Cadillac with a two cylinder diesel engine from a farm tractor. Residents of Haita and Mexico are constantly LEAVING - there's no one going there to live - exc a few movie stars.
Quote:
Cuba, although communist, enjoy a standard of living many countries vie for. This is why the "Wet foot, dry foot" policy is questioned. Haitian and Mexican migrants aren't afforded the same privileges Cubans enjoy.
That's a deal struck when Bay of Pigs failed to launch. I've often questioned that policy, as many Cubans are already here and magically appear on the beaches of Key Biscayne overnight - dressed in modern clothing and good shoes recently purchased at WalMart. There are none of those types of stores in Cuba.
Cuba is lower on the scale than Haiti, the DR and Africa. That won't change until Fidel and Raul are both dead and the embargo is lifted. But, there won't be another Mariel.
but in 1959 it was better to be poor in Cuba than in the rest of what is now known as the developing world.
Well let's be realistic - in 1959, so many Cubans were furious at Batista that his regime lost a war to a band of revolutionaries. Clearly, a lot of Cubans back then were extremely unhappy with their lot.
People say that history is written by the victors. In the case of Cuba, it is Fidel Castro who has done so, exaggerating the negatives and downplaying the positives of pre-Castro Cuba. Most people seem to have bought that.
I don't think there was as much inequality in Cuba in 1958 as in other Latin American countries.
I've never heard of tent cities and shanty towns existing in Cuba.
Cubans are not free to move within their country without official permission. Thousands of Cubans have been deported from Havana back to the provinces they migrated from. Despite that, there are shanties.
Most Cubans live in dilapidated homes.
Anyway, here is an example of the things typical Cubans have to go through, when in most countries people simply go to a store and buy a new fan (with English subtitles):
This one is in English, no subtitles:
Here is another one, but with subtitles:
Such a shame that a country that was at the top of Latin America, today is like that. Cuba would had been something else had it not gone down the path it did.
We all know Cuba has insecurities in regards to living standards. However, the poorest of Cuba is much better off than that of other Latin American countries who have free market economies.
Last edited by knowledgeiskey; 02-15-2013 at 07:54 PM..
And to add, Cuba isn't plagued with drug violence that other LA countries endure. Cuba is a relatively safe country. It's one of the safest travel destinations in the world.
Based on the American psych, anything associated with communism is rather grim. Although true, we never acknowledge the standard of living. Countries with free market opportunities do have poor standards of living in certain pockets of their populations. Haiti and Mexico are examples. These two countries are void of stalinism but are plagued with corruption and low standards of living.
Cuba, although communist, enjoy a standard of living many countries vie for. This is why the "Wet foot, dry foot" policy is questioned. Haitian and Mexican migrants aren't afforded the same privileges Cubans enjoy.
First Mexico and Haiti are two very different countries so let's not group them together
Second when you say "certain pockets of the population" I think you mean the lower low class which is only a percentage of the population in most Latin American countries. In Cuba everybody's poor, the whole population because the government owns and controls all resouces and property, including the garbage.
Most people in Mexico and Honduras don't have to search garbage dumps survive. In Cuba everybody lives like Antonio's videos.
In Cuba there is no hope or liberty. Remember that guy who said give me liberty or give me death? He knew a thing or two. If you want to understand the liberty concept you need to watch the third video(it's an hour long) that Antonio posted
Many people in Latin America have moved to the middle class, in Cuba there is no middle class. In Cuba you cannot even move to the capital and search for a job. Don't you understand how horrible that concept is? Many people in those shanty towns in latin america live better than Cubans. Those shanty towns go through stages(from illegal invasions to brick homes with schools and utilities) and so do their residents. There is internet in many poor areas in Latin America, in Cuba you cannot even access the internet because there is no liberty. They are stuck in the 1950's
Capitalism is not perfect, not even here in the USA but the alternative is not better.
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