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It's neither, African-Americans are slightly admixed but they fit within the phenotypical range of black Africans for the most part. The majority of African-Americans would be considered black by the average laymen in Latin America.
You scream "strawman" when backed into a corner, and are now forced to alter your thesis. No longer do you argue that the typical AA can fit into a group of Nigerians, unnoticed, but then you pretend that you never said this, when this was the whole point of this thread.
And here again you repeat the flawed notion that being "black" equates "looking African". The notion being that to not look African means that one must obviously look mixed, indeed that was your original thesis.
Let me correct you.
1. Many have TRIED to tell you that black Americans (and blacks from the Caribbean and Latin America) represented two levels of mxing. The first being between DIFFERENT African groups. In the USA large numbers of people from Upper Guinea were mixed ith large numbers from the Angola/Congo region. These groups would NEVER have met in Africa, so the blended "look" arising wouldnt be found among Africans.
Indeed, even though enslaved by teh same British planters those in the Caribbean pulled from a different p[ool, favoring Bight of Biafra (mainly Igbo) and Gold Coast (Akan, Ga and Ewe), and so those black Anglophone Caribbeans who dont show visible signs of mixed ancestry look different from a similar group of AAs.
2. While the average 15-20% mix of AAs isnt enough to make your typical AA meet your criteria of looking mixed (i.e. looking like a mulatto) it is enough to alter facial features to make them not look like Africans. You are now conceding that most AAs do not look African for this reason.
Your thesis is to argue that people of African descent are less mixed than those in Latin America.
1. Who is debating you on this? It is quite clear that there is a "missing" mulato group in the USA as very few people fit into the less than 5o% African, but more than 10% European group, unlike Latin America, where this is common.
2. Apart from a comparative analysis comparing the history of Latin America and the USA, I dont see what relevance this is. The fact is that the "mulatto" in the USA (and even more so in the non Hispanic Caribbean) was a privileged person in ways that the most obvious mulato people in Latin America arent. Indeed most people looking at an AA of ancient multi-ethnic miscegenation will assume that this person comes from a reasonably affluent, and well educated background. This is NOT the case in most parts of Latin America, where they are merely seen as "better" than the less mixed black, but still not really part of the elite.
And BTW I am not sure that large numbers of AAs will be considered "black" in a country like Brazil (which has the largest % of Afro descendants in Latin America). I fall into the Denzil Washington type group and I have been accused by Brazilians and Dominicans for insisting that I be considered "black". Comments being that Anglophone Caribbean people are "Afrocentric racists" who refuse to acknowledge a space for those who arent black, and my refusal to consider myself to be "mixed" being testimoney to that. Further commentary being that we are "unlucky" because the "racist" British refused to mix (not true) and so we remained "black". Imploied of course was that something was wrong with this.
What is supposed to be proven here? People use "Nigerian" like its a one size fits all term. There is a range of appearances among Nigerians. Igbos and Hausas can look very different from Yorubas. Plus, what about a Nigerian Fulani? Many have Arab admixture, but they are still Nigerians.
Of course you can find African Americans who look like Nigerians and vice versa. The appearance of Nigerians varies greatly. People think because they have seen a handful of Nigerians they know what Nigerians look like. Maybe you have seen a handful of Nigerians from the same ethnic group. Same goes for African Americans. Go to some rural towns in Alabama and Mississippi. The black Americans down there don't necessarily look like the black Americans in New York City or Los Angeles.
Point is, to say the there is "no way" black Americans could look Nigerian is ignorance at its finest. And from I'm reading here the ignorance is not just of black Americans. Its also ignorance of Nigeria and the people who live there.
I can tell that you are white, because you have a very narrow way of perceiving people of African descent. It isn't just skin color. I even doubt whether you will be as sensitive to the skin color gradations either. Denzil Washington isn't "high yella", but he clearly isn't African.
Its also facial features, body build and type, hair textures. Also mannerisms and hand facial gesticulation.
American blacks have lost almost all that is African in how they communicate. Africans don't only use language but there is a rich array of facial and hand gestures, unknown to most American blacks. These aren't uniform across sub Saharan Africa either.
So even the most "African" looking American black cant pass, especially as most come in at less then 80% in African ancestry.
Mistaking an American black for an African is like mistaking a German for an Italian. Even if they have the same phenotype their mannerisms are very different.
Actually, the percentage of African ancestry of Black Americans is 80%. If you go to certain parts of the US, you may get some that COULD pass under certain circumstances.
Also, there are many Black Americans with high cheekbones, round faces and prominent fore heads. That pretty much describes my father's side of the family from Mississippi.
What is supposed to be proven here? People use "Nigerian" like its a one size fits all term. There is a range of appearances among Nigerians. Igbos and Hausas can look very different from Yorubas. Plus, what about a Nigerian Fulani? Many have Arab admixture, but they are still Nigerians.
Of course you can find African Americans who look like Nigerians and vice versa. The appearance of Nigerians varies greatly. People think because they have seen a handful of Nigerians they know what Nigerians look like. Maybe you have seen a handful of Nigerians from the same ethnic group. Same goes for African Americans. Go to some rural towns in Alabama and Mississippi. The black Americans down there don't necessarily look like the black Americans in New York City or Los Angeles.
Point is, to say the there is "no way" black Americans could look Nigerian is ignorance at its finest. And from I'm reading here the ignorance is not just of black Americans. Its also ignorance of Nigeria and the people who live there.
I say most Black Americans are more brown to dark brown. Denzel Washington would be a good example of what I think the bulk of Black Americans look like as far as complexion.
What's your point again? Most of your posts consist of arguing straw-men, so I don't really know what you're talking about most of the time. I don't think they're "an undifferentiated whole", whatever that means. I never implied anything close to that. It's obvious there are different phenotypes among African-Americans, just like there are different phenotypes among Nigerians, and other African groups. They don't all look the same, but the overlap is signficant enough that an average African-American could reasonably fit in with a group of West/Central Africans, on physical appearance alone. That should be a pretty simple concept to grasp.
To anyone whos actually familiar with both groups on a regular basis. The overlap between West Africans and typical African Americans are small beyond having a similar skintone. The average African American is a mix of various West and Central African tribes that did not happen in the Old World which is the point that you're not hearing from Caribny. There's a significant genetical and physical difference between a Senegalese, a Nigerian, and a Angolan, and those people mixed together in the New World to create a whole different look from the Old World Stock.
Senegalese people stick out like a sore thumb in Nigeria, so how would a typical African American pass easily in Nigeria when they are a mix of two or more separate West/Central African peoples? The mannerisms between AA's and West/Central Africans are also way different. It's easy to spot Europeans based on mannerisms from White Americans who have less genetic admixture than AA's do.
Add to the fact that the average AA is around 20% European. That also means that AA's are genetically drifted from the West Africans we descend from. You are looking too much into skin color and ignoring body builds, headshapes, hair texture, and the fact that many AA men are able to grow full beards and have chest hair.
Even in West Africa. There are groups like the Fulani who have 1/4 North African DNA. so there's even mixing going on in West Africa.
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Yeah, maybe I lack "knowledge of blacks". Though I've seen enough African-Americans to know what they generally look like. I never said Beyonce doesn't fit within the range of African-Americans. Probably about 5-10% of the African-American population is as mixed looking as Beyonce, in other words a minority. 9 out of 10 African-American women are gonna look closer to Jeniffer Hudson than they are to Beyonce. The biracial Alicia Keys, however, definitely doesn't fit the typical range of what black Americans look like, yet you brought her up earlier. Again, not even one percent of African-Americans looks like her. I can show you a crowd of about a 100 or so African-Americans, and not one of them will look like Alicia Keys.
Having seen enough African Americans doesn't mean you've seen the whole 40 million AA population across the United States. I live in Los Angeles, and a typical group of African Americans looks differerent from a typical group of AA's from NYC, and a typical group of AA's from Detroit. Not only did different West/Central African groups arrived from the historical areas they came from. But the average admixture is different in these cities as well. So, no. You haven't seen enough African Americans.
And of course Alicia Keys would look different from a typical AA. She's not only a First Generational mix. But her mother is of Italian descent which would give a different look from a typical light skinned AA. The overwhelming majority of AA's European admixture comes from the British Isles. Look at someone like T.I's wife Tiny Cottle. She's also a first generational mix. But her facial features are more familiar to a AA's point of view because her mother is of British Isles descent. If she was a Medium Brown complexion. She would look like a typical African American.
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It's neither, African-Americans are slightly admixed but they fit within the phenotypical range of black Africans for the most part. The majority of African-Americans would be considered black by the average laymen in Latin America. Even someone like Beyonce, who's in the lightest spectrum of the population, would be seen as black in most countries. So I don't get why African-Americans think they would be seen as "mixed" or anything other than black in any country, when they typically look like the image below. It's even funnier hearing African-Americans who say they're considered or seen as white in black African countries. That's just beyond delusional.
I see your whole argument basically comes to this "African Americans are trying to claim they are mixed like Afro Latinos, and would be seen as something other than Black in Latin America when it's not the truth". You're trying to claim the AA's are self haters. When the majority of AA's don't care about their European ancestry and considers themselves "Fully Black" with "Two Black Parents".
When my Congolese ex came to the states, he was shocked to see so many African looking people in the U.S. When my friend from Tanzania came to the U.S., she was shocked to see so many African looking people in the U.S. When my friend from Ghana came to the U.S., he was shocked to see so many African looking people in the U.S. That should tell you simpletons just how African Black Americans look. Now close this dumb thread. Thanks.
Strictly in terms of phenotype, would an average African-American fit in amongst a group of Nigerian people? Or would the African-American stand out and be seen as being too light or mixed/exotic looking?
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