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In about a year from now, I will be taking my family of four (kids ages 3 and 5) on a 6 week vacation to a place where we may eventually want to move.
We want it to be in the Americas, predominantly spanish speaking, and less expensive than the US. --- It doesn't need to be dirt cheap, just less than expensive urban areas in the Western US and Europe.
We would like to be in an area where we may meet english-speaking ex-pats as well as spanish speaking locals and indigenous people speaking local languages.
We don't need to be in the middle of a large city, but are willing to if needed.
Mild or warm winters (but not equatorial hot).
Relatively safe (all places can be dangerous, we just need to avoid especially volatile regions).
We will be there primarily for volunteer work, so beautiful beaches, resorts and tourist attractions are a secondary concern, but they are still a plus. (we're not quite ready to be way off in a remote village yet)
Interesting culture, architecture and landscape is also a plus but doesn't need to be anything spectacular.
Jobs are not an issue because we will be on vacation next year and on hiatus (if not retired) by the time we move, but we would like the economy to be relatively stable.
Based on all that (and a few other things), we have sort of narrowed it down to Costa Rica and Chile. But we are open to other suggestions. We will appreciate hearing about the pros and cons to any of those places, as well as others I did not mention. Thanks in advance for your comments.
Last edited by otterprods; 01-14-2015 at 06:14 PM..
We want it to be in the Americas, predominantly spanish speaking, and less expensive than the US. --- It doesn't need to be dirt cheap, just less than expensive urban areas in the Western US and Europe.
Costa Rica and Chile both fit this category.
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We would like to be in an area where we may meet english-speaking ex-pats as well as spanish speaking locals and indigenous people speaking local languages.
You will not meet many Indians in either country, but Costa Rica is better for meeting English-speaking expats.
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We don't need to be in the middle of a large city, but are willing to if needed.
Santiago de Chile is the best of the large cities in the countries you have narrowed down. San Jose is modern and everything is available, its not a huge city but it's quite ugly except in the wealthy suburb of Escazu. Both Santiago and San Jose have nice weather, the former is more Mediterranean like (think of California type of weather) while the latter is tropical but because its high in a plateau the climate is much more moderate. Once you leave the Central Plateau of Costa Rica and go to either of the coasts the full force of the tropical weather is felt.
The Caribbean coast of Costa Rica is also culturally and racially different from the rest of the country. In this area most of the people descend from Jamaican immigrants that the Americans imported in the late 1800s and the 1900s to work in banana and other types of plantation, so the overall feeling is more like in the English-speaking Caribbean. In the rest of Costa Rica lost of the people are either mestizos (Spanish mixed with Indians) or whites of mostly Spanish descent. There are many mestizos from neighboring Nicaragua, but they are Spanish mixed with different Indian tribes. There aren't much 'pure' Indians in Costa Rica, but there are more in neighboring Panama with their own Indian reserves where their traditional lifestyle is protected.
Chile is more homogenous, mainly a mixture of whites (mostly of Spanish descent but in some southern areas there are significant German ancestry) and mestizos (Spanish mixed with Mapuche Indians for the most part.) There are some full blooded Mapuches, but they are a tiny minority and have a presence in select areas of Chile.
Most Costa Rican mestizos define themselves as white due to their white skin color.
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Mild or warm winters (but not equatorial hot).
The Central Plateau of Costa Rica and much of Chile has the weather you are looking for. Keep in mind that Chile is in the Southern Hemisphere, so their seasons are opposite of ours. For example, right now they are in the middle of their summer.
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Relatively safe (all places can be dangerous, we just need to avoid especially volatile regions).
Both countries are relatively safe, but in Costa Rica the people have a perception that crime is getting worse. Its hard to tell if this is simply an effect of the sensationalist media (scaremongering is quite common in Latin American television and often times they show things that in the US you will never see in the news, such as the actual corpses of victims of accidents or crime), or if the people's perception goes hand in hand withan actual increase of crime. Costa Rica is also suffering from a massive illegal immigration of extremely poor people Nicaragua which might fuel some of the crime.
The sensation about crime in Chile is much more localized and appears to be more an effect from the media than an actual increase of crime. Chile is receiving many foreigners, especially Peruvians, but proportionately it doesn't compares to the effect illegal immigration is having in Costa Rica. In fact, not even the US is proportionally affected by illegal immigration as is Costa Rica.
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We will be there primarily for volunteer work, so beautiful beaches, resorts and tourist attractions are a secondary concern, but they are still a plus. (we're not quite ready to be way off in a remote village yet)
Costa Rica is much better suited for this, its beaches on the Caribbean side are very beautiful while the one's on the Pacific not so much.
Beaches in Chile are nothing to write home about and the water is usually too cold for swimming even in the warmer months. But, the coolness of the water is what gives much of Chile its near perfect Mediterranean like weather year round.
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Interesting culture, architecture and landscape is also a plus but doesn't need to be anything spectacular.
Chile has more culture than Costa Rica as well as more interesting architecture. San Jose is one of the ugliest capitals in this hemisphere (not poorest but definitely ugly) while Santiago is much more sofisticated and prosperous. It's well organized.
Landscape is very nice in both countries, but the spectacular views of the Andes in Chile is simply unmatched anywhere in Costa Rica.
Wow, Antonio... WOW... that response was completely fantastic and totally objective (I wish I could award you the $500 myself). I will be printing it out and referring to it often.
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Originally Posted by AntonioR
You will not meet many Indians in either country, but Costa Rica is better for meeting English-speaking expats.
That's fine, it doesn't need to be indians. Just people of various backgrounds, preferably very humble ones without having to drive too far from the city. It is nice to have some expats around, but not as a majority. We're mostly going there to assist and learn from people.
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Originally Posted by AntonioR
Santiago de Chile is the best of the large cities in the countries you have narrowed down. San Jose is modern and everything is available, its not a huge city but it's quite ugly except in the wealthy suburb of Escazu.
That's great to know. I had it pictured the other way around. We're hoping to avoid really large cities but it's good to know Chile has a relatively nice one if we need one.
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Originally Posted by AntonioR
The Central Plateau of Costa Rica and much of Chile has the weather you are looking for. Keep in mind that Chile is in the Southern Hemisphere, so their seasons are opposite of ours. For example, right now they are in the middle of their summer.
Ok, that's what I suspected. I lived all over CA for many years, so that is what I'm used to and prefer, including swimming in cold water (which really isn't that cold to me, even up in Humboldt). But it's really good to know, ad also that I can avoid a tropical furnace in the high plateau of CR. We can handle cold fine, just not HOT.
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Originally Posted by AntonioR
Both countries are relatively safe, but in Costa Rica the people have a perception that crime is getting worse. Its hard to tell if this is simply an effect of the sensationalist media (scaremongering is quite common in Latin American television and often times they show things that in the US you will never see in the news, such as the actual corpses of victims of accidents or crime), or if the people's perception goes hand in hand withan actual increase of crime. Costa Rica is also suffering from a massive illegal immigration of extremely poor people Nicaragua which might fuel some of the crime. The sensation about crime in Chile is much more localized and appears to be more an effect from the media than an actual increase of crime. Chile is receiving many foreigners, especially Peruvians, but proportionately it doesn't compares to the effect illegal immigration is having in Costa Rica. In fact, not even the US is proportionally affected by illegal immigration as is Costa Rica.
Safety is obviously a big concern with young children, but nowhere is really SAFE. (my wife and I got a knife pulled on us in HAWAII) You worded your perception it in a way that makes perfect sense to me and I suspect you're ultimately correct. Great job!
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Originally Posted by AntonioR
Landscape is very nice in both countries, but the spectacular views of the Andes in Chile is simply unmatched anywhere in Costa Rica.
Yes, that's a big, big appeal to us, coming form Colorado and previously CA (Sierras).
You've made a pretty good case for Chile to me, even though you weren't trying to. I'll be interested to know if you have other suggestions as well. My wife is leaning toward CR because it seems more familiar and american-friendly to here. I'm leaning toward Chile because it seems less familiar and american-invaded. But like I said, we're not exactly ready for sri-lanka yet either.
Last edited by otterprods; 01-14-2015 at 07:54 PM..
I'm in Santiago right now and it is a amazing city with a great climate, very modern and organized, the subway is highly functional, it's safe particularly on the east side, the fruits and veggies are outstanding. Negatives are the pollution and risk of earthquake. IMO, Santiago is the best city in SA. Ugh, it's not cheap but cheaper than most North American large cities.
I think San Jose would also work but definitely less modern or developed as Santiago. Another option might be Vina on the coast of Chile. As Antonio mentioned (with an outstanding review), the Pac is cold here in Chile and is not really fit for swimming.
chile is charming with nice coastlines, deserts
you can have a very good quality of life there, costa rica is more warm and tropical. I would pick chile
That would be a big plus! One thing we really miss here in CO is good fresh produce! It;s probably great (if not better) In CR though I'd imagine.
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Originally Posted by Tall Traveler
Negatives are the pollution and risk of earthquake.
That doesn't seem too worrisome after living in CA for so long (my wife experienced Loma Prieta 1st hand and we both felt Northridge pretty intensely.). Of course it would suck to be caught in the big one and it will also take some time to get used to pollution again, but there's always going to be some drawbacks.
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Originally Posted by Tall Traveler
IMO, Santiago is the best city in SA. Ugh, it's not cheap but cheaper than most North American large cities.
Yes, that's basically what I've been reading elsewhere. The price comparisons I did online looked like it was roughly 25-30% lower there than in Colorado Springs (our nearest city). So I will need to bring some pretty serious cash if/when we decide to move, and still maybe have to work some, especially if we want to stay longer than a year or two. But money will still go further there than here. It would be nice if it were less expensive but it's a trade off we can accept.
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Originally Posted by Tall Traveler
I think San Jose would also work but definitely less modern or developed as Santiago. Another option might be Vina on the coast of Chile. As Antonio mentioned (with an outstanding review), the Pac is cold here in Chile and is not really fit for swimming.
OK lets talk about towns a little more later. We're not intent on being in a big city. In fact, we'd probably like to avoid that if there are nice affordable smaller towns. We live in a town of 2000 people now and love it, but we're within an hour of both CO Springs and Denver which is like the best of both worlds to us. But our preferences may be different in a foreign country. We may even like living in a big city center if it means we can walk to most things and enjoy city stuff. That's probably all putting the cart before the horse though because we need to plan our 6-week vacation (next year) first, and we'll know a lot more about if and where we want to move after that. The town Vina (Viña del Mar ?) you mentioned looks like it may be ideal for that because we can fly into Santiago and get there relatively easily. They also have an English congregation which is a necessity at first. It seems to have everything we need... would it be nice for a vacation as well? We would just want to get a decent vacation rental cottage (apartment, etc...) in a nice area, but not necessarily anything fabulous. it sounds like I'm ruling out Costa Rica already... my wife may disagree though.
I don't want to discount the cold water, but how cold are we talking? I grew up and lived much of my adult life on or near beaches in San Diego, Orange/LA county, and the SF Bay Area. I recently spent a week on a beach north of SF and went swimming everyday, mostly without wet suit. Up there, and even in SD, the water is rarely much warmer than 70° F and often in the mid 50s (or colder) in the winter... I can always wear a wetsuit if I go out, and my kids just splash in the whitewash and/or tidal puddles anyways and seem impervious to the cold. We might prefer fishing and paddling more than surfing/swimming anyways as we are no spring chickens, despite the ages of our kids. :-) Warm tropical water is great, but usually not worth the hot humid air that goes with it, IMO. It's more tolerable on vacation because you tend to be in the water a lot, but the point of this "vacation" is to investigate for a potential move and do some volunteer work.
Sorry if I'm being long winded. Everyone's responses have been so great and I truly do appreciate all of them. This has been a goal and a dream of ours for many, many years now. It's exciting to see the reality of it is beginning to take shape. (also a little scary)
You will not meet many Indians in either country, but Costa Rica is better for meeting English-speaking expats.
Santiago de Chile is the best of the large cities in the countries you have narrowed down. San Jose is modern and everything is available, its not a huge city but it's quite ugly except in the wealthy suburb of Escazu. Both Santiago and San Jose have nice weather, the former is more Mediterranean like (think of California type of weather) while the latter is tropical but because its high in a plateau the climate is much more moderate. Once you leave the Central Plateau of Costa Rica and go to either of the coasts the full force of the tropical weather is felt.
The Caribbean coast of Costa Rica is also culturally and racially different from the rest of the country. In this area most of the people descend from Jamaican immigrants that the Americans imported in the late 1800s and the 1900s to work in banana and other types of plantation, so the overall feeling is more like in the English-speaking Caribbean. In the rest of Costa Rica lost of the people are either mestizos (Spanish mixed with Indians) or whites of mostly Spanish descent. There are many mestizos from neighboring Nicaragua, but they are Spanish mixed with different Indian tribes. There aren't much 'pure' Indians in Costa Rica, but there are more in neighboring Panama with their own Indian reserves where their traditional lifestyle is protected.
Chile is more homogenous, mainly a mixture of whites (mostly of Spanish descent but in some southern areas there are significant German ancestry) and mestizos (Spanish mixed with Mapuche Indians for the most part.) There are some full blooded Mapuches, but they are a tiny minority and have a presence in select areas of Chile.
Most Costa Rican mestizos define themselves as white due to their white skin color.
The Central Plateau of Costa Rica and much of Chile has the weather you are looking for. Keep in mind that Chile is in the Southern Hemisphere, so their seasons are opposite of ours. For example, right now they are in the middle of their summer.
Both countries are relatively safe, but in Costa Rica the people have a perception that crime is getting worse. Its hard to tell if this is simply an effect of the sensationalist media (scaremongering is quite common in Latin American television and often times they show things that in the US you will never see in the news, such as the actual corpses of victims of accidents or crime), or if the people's perception goes hand in hand with an actual increase of crime. Costa Rica is also suffering from a massive illegal immigration of extremely poor people Nicaragua which might fuel some of the crime.
The sensation about crime in Chile is much more localized and appears to be more an effect from the media than an actual increase of crime. Chile is receiving many foreigners, especially Peruvians, but proportionately it doesn't compares to the effect illegal immigration is having in Costa Rica. In fact, not even the US is proportionally affected by illegal immigration as is Costa Rica.
Costa Rica is much better suited for this, its beaches on the Caribbean side are very beautiful while the one's on the Pacific not so much.
Beaches in Chile are nothing to write home about and the water is usually too cold for swimming even in the warmer months. But, the coolness of the water is what gives much of Chile its near perfect Mediterranean like weather year round.
Chile has more culture than Costa Rica as well as more interesting architecture. San Jose is one of the ugliest capitals in this hemisphere (not poorest but definitely ugly) while Santiago is much more sofisticated and prosperous. It's well organized.
Landscape is very nice in both countries, but the spectacular views of the Andes in Chile is simply unmatched anywhere in Costa Rica.
One of the most concise and informative posts I've read in a long time. Thanks Antonio!
One of the most concise and informative posts I've read in a long time. Thanks Antonio!
I know, right? I was pretty much blown away by it. And it came back so fast! What a kindness.. and the way it was worded was SO respectful and reasonable. Such a rarity, even on here...
As for our plans: we are strongly leaning towards Chile at this point, only my wife will need a little more convincing. I've found myself frequently looking into airfares, CoL comparisons, etc... already! :-)
That would be a big plus! One thing we really miss here in CO is good fresh produce! It;s probably great (if not better) In CR though I'd imagine.
That doesn't seem too worrisome after living in CA for so long (my wife experienced Loma Prieta 1st hand and we both felt Northridge pretty intensely.). Of course it would suck to be caught in the big one and it will also take some time to get used to pollution again, but there's always going to be some drawbacks.
Yes, that's basically what I've been reading elsewhere. The price comparisons I did online looked like it was roughly 25-30% lower there than in Colorado Springs (our nearest city). So I will need to bring some pretty serious cash if/when we decide to move, and still maybe have to work some, especially if we want to stay longer than a year or two. But money will still go further there than here. It would be nice if it were less expensive but it's a trade off we can accept.
OK lets talk about towns a little more later. We're not intent on being in a big city. In fact, we'd probably like to avoid that if there are nice affordable smaller towns. We live in a town of 2000 people now and love it, but we're within an hour of both CO Springs and Denver which is like the best of both worlds to us. But our preferences may be different in a foreign country. We may even like living in a big city center if it means we can walk to most things and enjoy city stuff. That's probably all putting the cart before the horse though because we need to plan our 6-week vacation (next year) first, and we'll know a lot more about if and where we want to move after that. The town Vina (Viña del Mar ?) you mentioned looks like it may be ideal for that because we can fly into Santiago and get there relatively easily. They also have an English congregation which is a necessity at first. It seems to have everything we need... would it be nice for a vacation as well? We would just want to get a decent vacation rental cottage (apartment, etc...) in a nice area, but not necessarily anything fabulous. it sounds like I'm ruling out Costa Rica already... my wife may disagree though.
I don't want to discount the cold water, but how cold are we talking? I grew up and lived much of my adult life on or near beaches in San Diego, Orange/LA county, and the SF Bay Area. I recently spent a week on a beach north of SF and went swimming everyday, mostly without wet suit. Up there, and even in SD, the water is rarely much warmer than 70° F and often in the mid 50s (or colder) in the winter... I can always wear a wetsuit if I go out, and my kids just splash in the whitewash and/or tidal puddles anyways and seem impervious to the cold. We might prefer fishing and paddling more than surfing/swimming anyways as we are no spring chickens, despite the ages of our kids. :-) Warm tropical water is great, but usually not worth the hot humid air that goes with it, IMO. It's more tolerable on vacation because you tend to be in the water a lot, but the point of this "vacation" is to investigate for a potential move and do some volunteer work.
Sorry if I'm being long winded. Everyone's responses have been so great and I truly do appreciate all of them. This has been a goal and a dream of ours for many, many years now. It's exciting to see the reality of it is beginning to take shape. (also a little scary)
If I may ask your reasons for wanting to uproot your entire family to come to latin america? Are you missionaries? I lived in Santiago de Chile for about a year and still have alot of friends there. Let's not romanticize things and talk about some hard realities here, you're planning on uprooting your entire family and moving to a new country, new culture language etc....this is MAJOR!
Viña in Chile is a sea port town, it's beautiful and it's right on the coast. It's a very tourist oriented and it's also very expensive by Chilean standards. Alot of wealthy Santiagueños live there or have weekend/summer homes there. You need to understand: I don't know if you're planning on having a car, if so that's great, but generally traveling in latin-america is alot less convenient, even if you have a car ESPECIALLY if you don't. The main highway that runs the length of Chile from about Antofogasta/Iqique is VERY well maintained and paved but distances are long, especially north of Santiago. Living in even some mid-sized Chilean towns you're going to have to possibly do without alot of amenities that you might be used to in the US. Not so much in Santiago but in any of the mid sized towns and definately in any small towns you will...for sure. In many of these very rural towns it's like stepping back in time...literally. The last time I checked, getting residency in Chile wasn't that easy, at least when I last looked into it, not like it was here in Argentina. You're not married to a Chilean so you need to look into that. It's gonna cost you some money and it's gonna take you some time. Things move alot slower down here.
Chilean Spanish is challenging. It's clipped and full of slang and nuances so you'll need to be VERY patient in catching on with the spanish if you don't already speak the language. It's probably not the best country to leanr spanish in ( although Chileans will disagree ) but upper-class Chileans will have a very neutral spanish and be easier to understand.
In general, all of latin america has a problem with higher insecurity and crime and Chile really isn't as much of an exception as some folks might like to believe it is. It's not Guatamala or Honduras but it's higher than what you're used to, without a doubt. You might as well understand that now before you go and I'm giving it to you straight from someone who's already lived in Santiago and Argentina for a long time. A young single man coming down here is one thing, but you have a family in tow, this is different. You're not talking about coming here for 7 days or even 2 months. You're talking about coming here to live in and amongst the folks in the every day. I don't know your economic status so I don't know what you'll do here for a living or where you'll be living. However, you need to be aware, this isn't the US, in general crime is higher and you need to be vigilant EVERYWHERE especially in any of the capital cities or 2nd and even 3rd size cities.
Latin americans are great folks, but they don't carry nor have an understanding of the typical "naivetee" and nuances of living that we are acustomed to or that comes with the average american or even many europeans. Here, folks are wittier, quicker, and they're more "survivalist" minded...I don't know another way to put it. They're used to having to be more assertive in general and much more confrontational, because society here is more so that way. So if you're naturally a polite, yet an assertive person, you'll catch on quick, if you're weak, passive or non-confrontational, you're going to have a hard time living here and you're going to get taken advantage of. I'm not blathering, this comes from "personal experience" and I've lived here in Chile and mostly Argentina for some years now, take my word for it, I mean this with all due respect.
You'll need to learn to be hyper vigilant here and more careful at all times, you need to watch your back, everywhere, take nowhere for granted anywhere in latin america. You don't need to be fearful ( unless you find yourself in the worng place at the wrong time ) but if you're not sure, ask the locals, they'll never let you down. Living here will change you, some for the better, some for the worst. I have the best and the worst of it since I've been down here and my wife and I have been through alot.
It's important you have a realistic viewpoint of what life in another country is like. It's great and full of blessings but it's no walk in the park nor a bed of roses....and you have little children to think about. Assimilate as much as you can and keep a low profile, you'll most likely be ok, but it's going to stretch you..
Last edited by EricOldTime; 01-15-2015 at 02:54 PM..
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