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Anyway, Puerto Rico will remain Puerto Rico for a very long time. The current inhabitants of the island have strong ties to the name because it came from their ancestors. Its a name they inherited from their own people, it was not imposed by some other society.
Puerto Rico is expect to lose 15% of it population as residents flee to mainland U.S. The 2020 census I can see Puerto Rico go down to 2.5 million residents.
"During the decade before Maria, economic decline and depopulation, a slower-moving catastrophe, had been taking a staggering toll: The number of residents had plunged by 11 percent, the economy had shrunk by 15 percent, and the government had become unable to pay its bills."
The OP is constantly making threads about changing the names to places. What is wrong with you? lol
Quick reminder to everyone, but especially the OP, that Spain didn't 'occupy' PR because PR was actually a province of Spain, and the people of Puerto Rico are of Spanish ancestry. If we're going to talk about an invented 'Spanish occupation' then PR is still occupied by the Spaniards, look at the blood running through people's veins if you want any proof of this.
Also, the typical Puerto Rican is overwhelmingly of Spanish ancestry, so this notion of 'wanting to get away from the Spanish period' is simply impossible when the blood, the culture, etc is Spanish. In order to get rid of the Spanish influence, the OP will have to give each Puerto Rican a dagger and ask each and every single one to commit suicide.
The Spanish Caribbean is different from most of the other islands and Caribbean countries. In most islands the average person has extremely little or no genetic connection to a European country, but in the Spanish Caribbean the average person has significant Spanish blood. You can't pretend that isn't real.
Genomic Studies Results:
(Barbados' and African American results can actually be used as representations of typical Caribbean islands genetic reality; but in the Spanish Caribbean things are different.)
This one has the entire Spanish Caribbean (Cuba, Puerto Rico, and Dominican Republic), notice that the only one that has a typical result for the Caribbean is Haiti:
Everything that has to do with Spain (ancestry, language, culture, way of life; etc) in the Spanish Caribbean isn't an imposition, but rather an inheritance. In the rest of the Caribbean you do have impositions (cultures/languages imposed on people with little to no connection with the European country, aka textbook Colonialism.)
i don't think all this was necessary in this type of thread.
Most died from diseases at a time when no one knew about germs, viruses, etc. By most I mean over 90%, as has been proven through DNA testing of indian remains from that era up and down the continent. Diseases such as the common cold wiped entire indian villages when that very same disease for a European or an African was nothing more than a nuissance that lasted 10 days tops. The indians lacked the antibodies to successfully survive those diseases, but the rising mestizos inherited those antibodies from the Spanish ancestors. Had it not been for the diseases, the entirety of Latin America today would had been overwhelmingly peopled by indian peoples.
At the time Columbus arrived in the Caribbean, the Taino indians of the Greater Antilles (basically the four large islands) were under constant attack from the Carib indians. The second ones had conquered the entire Lesser Antilles (smaller islands east and southeast of Puerto Rico) and were on a subsequent conquering of the larger islands. Their methods was violent invasions of Taino villages, killing off all the men, kidnapping the boys to fatten them and later eat them (human flesh was considered a delicacy, with young meat the most prized among them), and the women were kidnapped in order to rape them and have them have their children.
That is one of the reasons when Christopher Columbus arrived on what is now the northern coast of Hispaniola, the Taino king Guacanagarix decided to form an alliance with the Spaniards in order to beat the Caribs.
Actually, that became the standard form of operation everywhere the Spaniards arrived in this hemisphere, including Mexico and Peru. Many of these places had indigenous societies that were either under subsequent attacks from rivaling indigenous societies or were already submerged under the dictatorial authority of an indigenous society that invaded them a long time before. In Mexico, the Aztecs used the young men of conquered tribes for their sacrifices to their gods on top of their famous pyramids. They literally ripped out these poor guys beating heart while they were still alive and awake, plus chopped off their heads and limbs, before throwing the remaining blood spewing courpse down the stairs from the top of the pyramids. At any given ceremony they would sacrifice as few as 10 and, on major celebrations that lasted days, thousands of young men, all from subjugated tribes. When Hernan Cortez arrived in Mexico, the indian tribes that were full of resentment towards the Aztec due to the brutal treatment they were subjugated made alliances with the Spaniards in order to beat the Aztecs. It was these alliances that made it possible for the victory against the Aztecs. Modern Mexicans are in fact the conquerors, not the conquered people. The very first upper class of the new Mexico was composed by families of mixed Spanish/indigenous ancestry. This included Hernan Cortez who was given one of Monctezuma's daughters to be his wife by Monctezuma himself. Cortez's children were the most prized people in Mexico, the pinnacle of Mexican society; offsprings that in their very existence was the evidence of the alliance between Spaniards and Indians.
You put attention to the conquest of America and you will see the same story repeating itself up and down the continent. Indian societies that were brutally treated by their stronger Indian neighbors formed alliances with the Spaniards, and not only did they together beat their oppressors (and after beating them subjected their oppressors to serve them), but they fused to become one people with the Spaniards that included marriage and intermixture.
It was not imposed, the Indian societies that were oppressed by their neighboring more powerful Indian socieites welcomed the Spaniards and united with them. Even after the victory was acheived, the Indian societies that united with the Spaniards gained preferential treatments along with the Spaniards, and united in soul and in blood lines.
We can't pretend these alliances never took place.
Do you really think that 1000 Spaniards alone were really going to bring down an empire such as the Aztec, which consisted of millions of people?
Indians were mistreating indians, subjecting themselves to cannibalism, sacrifices, and abuses of all types. The arrival of the Spaniards was the opportunity the oppressed Indians saw in order to avenge themselves from the oppressing Indians. They invited the Spaniards, united with the Spaniards and won!
If it wasn't for the arrival of Columbus, the Tainos were going to go extinct not through absorption into Carib society, but rather killed and eaten to extinction by them as had already happened on the Lesser Antilles. Spanish arrival ensured that Taino genes survived to this very day (notice that these genes are present mostly in the Spanish Caribbean, that's not a coincidence), although mixed with Spanish blood and African too. The survival of Taino names, many Taino foods, musical instruments, construction styles, etc has a direct link to the arrival of the Spaniards (notice again that these remnants of Taino society exist overwhelmingly in the Spanish Caribbean, again not a coincidence.)
Most importantly, the arrival of the Spaniards made it possible for the people that currently live there to even come into existence. Only someone that hates themselves, hates their family members, and even hates their life would ever wish upon themselves to have never been born.
With that said, in the English Caribbean things are different. For one thing, most of the people in those English-speaking islands have little or no British blood in them. They can wish that the English had never arrived to the Caribbean and that doesn't imply that they hate themselves, because guess what? They hardly have any British in their blood line. The inhabitants of the Spanish Caribbean can't really do that without falling into hypocrisy, because whether we like it or not, most Spanish Caribbean people descend from the conquerors and not by a drop or two of Spanish blood.
Tainos were being attacked and eaten by the Caribbeans, that came jumping island to island from Ourinoco, As to the remains...were there are some folklorical indian towns arround Mayabeque, but totally laughable, they ont need rin tin tin and John Wayne disguides as sitting bull.
Tainos were being attacked and eaten by the Caribbeans, that came jumping island to island from Ourinoco, As to the remains...were there are some folklorical indian towns arround Mayabeque, but totally laughable, they ont need rin tin tin and John Wayne disguides as sitting bull.
Some what hysterical reaction. The Caribs populated small islands like Dominica. There is no way that they would have been anything other than an irritant to Tainos in Puerto Rico, and I very much doubt that they had reached as far as Hispaniola.
And in fact there are even conflicting theories as to how differentiated the Arawaks were from the Caribs.
The DNA of the average Caribbean Hispanic (Puerto Rican, Dominican, & Cuban) is about 60-70% European/North African, 20-30% West African, 10% Native Taino. The European ancestry in most of the Spanish Caribbean is mostly from Spain, but not mainland Spain, actually its from the Canary Islands (especially Ricans and Cubans), which is very distinct from actual Spanish. And very little in the Spanish Caribbean (especially in Puerto Rico and Dominican Republic) are of unmixed European ancestry, most are mixed. Puerto Ricans are basically a mix of Canarian with other Spanish/French, West African/Yoruba, & Taino.
While the average non-Hispanic Caribbean is overwhelming black. And the average non-Caribbean Hispanic is overwhelming mestizo.
False. Argentina and Uruguay are predominately white. Brazil and Colombia have significant Black populations, as do parts of Central America. The racial demographics of Latin America vary from country to country, but each Latin American country has people of all races, including recent immigrants.
Many Dominicans are a lot Blacker than 30% West Africa. You'll find some very Black Dominicans if you actually go to the Dominican Republic. Ditto Cuba.
False. Argentina and Uruguay are predominately white.
Mixture in Argentina and Uruguay is of a different kind. Like in most Spanish American countries, most of the population descends from Spaniards, but unlike in the rest of Spanish America they are mixed mainly with Italians and its a heavy mix. They even speak Spanish with a strong Italian influence.
So no, its not really a racial mixup but it certainly is ethnic and culturally. The average Argentinian or Uruguayan isn’t overwhelmingly of Spanish ancestry. The irony is that some other Spanish American nationalities may on average have more Spanish blood that do Argentineans or Uruguayans, but many people may refuse to believe simply because those people are mixed with other races and look less white than the typical Argentinian or Uruguayan. Another aspect that adds to this is that the Spanish ancestry among Argentinians or Uruguayans is much more recent than say the Spanish ancestry of the typical Puerto Rican or Colombian or Dominican or Costa Rican.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude
The racial demographics of Latin America vary from country to country, but each Latin American country has people of all races, including recent immigrants.
It also varies within countries, even in many of the smaller ones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude
Many Dominicans are a lot Blacker than 30% West Africa. You'll find some very Black Dominicans if you actually go to the Dominican Republic. Ditto Cuba.
In the DR the mixture is almost complete. In that country a person can look a certain way and genetically be something that their appearance doesn’t suggest. Kind of what happens with these typical Dominicans at the bottom part of this post: Click here and scroll down to see the examples
There are also many foreigners in the DR. On the darker side of things are mostly Haitians and many from the English Caribbean (and increasingly African Americans, Shaqueal Oneil -I know I probably butchered his name- has made the DR practically his second home), and on the lighter side of things are many Puerto Ricans, Cubans (most Cubans in DR are white), Venezuelans (the fastest growing at the moment), Colombians, and Spaniards. Sizeable numbers of Canadian, American, German, and French retirees are found in certain pockets along the coast (especially on the north coast and in Samana). Chinese, Arabs (mostly Lebanese and Palestinians), and Russians are increasingly moving there too.
Even among the ethnic Dominicans, there’s variation in different areas though there’s everything everywhere. Most of the population lives within 15 to 20% of the land area, mostly around the capital and in the Cibao Valley.
While there is a lot of admixture in Cuba, its not as extensive as in the DR. With Cubans their looks and their genetics tends to coincide with what one expects, except among those that are highly mixed and have been marrying within mixed people for generations. In these, I think the variation in looks vs actual genetic make up resembles what happens among Dominicans.
With that said, Cubans are on average much whiter than Dominicans or Puerto Ricans.
False. Argentina and Uruguay are predominately white. Brazil and Colombia have significant Black populations, as do parts of Central America. The racial demographics of Latin America vary from country to country, but each Latin American country has people of all races, including recent immigrants.
Many Dominicans are a lot Blacker than 30% West Africa. You'll find some very Black Dominicans if you actually go to the Dominican Republic. Ditto Cuba.
I know... thats why I said on AVERAGE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR
Mixture in Argentina and Uruguay is of a different kind. Like in most Spanish American countries, most of the population descends from Spaniards, but unlike in the rest of Spanish America they are mixed mainly with Italians and its a heavy mix. They even speak Spanish with a strong Italian influence.
So no, its not really a racial mixup but it certainly is ethnic and culturally. The average Argentinian or Uruguayan isn’t overwhelmingly of Spanish ancestry. The irony is that some other Spanish American nationalities may on average have more Spanish blood that do Argentineans or Uruguayans, but many people may refuse to believe simply because those people are mixed with other races and look less white than the typical Argentinian or Uruguayan. Another aspect that adds to this is that the Spanish ancestry among Argentinians or Uruguayans is much more recent than say the Spanish ancestry of the typical Puerto Rican or Colombian or Dominican or Costa Rican.
It also varies within countries, even in many of the smaller ones.
In the DR the mixture is almost complete. In that country a person can look a certain way and genetically be something that their appearance doesn’t suggest. Kind of what happens with these typical Dominicans at the bottom part of this post: Click here and scroll down to see the examples
There are also many foreigners in the DR. On the darker side of things are mostly Haitians and many from the English Caribbean (and increasingly African Americans, Shaqueal Oneil -I know I probably butchered his name- has made the DR practically his second home), and on the lighter side of things are many Puerto Ricans, Cubans (most Cubans in DR are white), Venezuelans (the fastest growing at the moment), Colombians, and Spaniards. Sizeable numbers of Canadian, American, German, and French retirees are found in certain pockets along the coast (especially on the north coast and in Samana). Chinese, Arabs (mostly Lebanese and Palestinians), and Russians are increasingly moving there too.
Even among the ethnic Dominicans, there’s variation in different areas though there’s everything everywhere. Most of the population lives within 15 to 20% of the land area, mostly around the capital and in the Cibao Valley.
While there is a lot of admixture in Cuba, its not as extensive as in the DR. With Cubans their looks and their genetics tends to coincide with what one expects, except among those that are highly mixed and have been marrying within mixed people for generations. In these, I think the variation in looks vs actual genetic make up resembles what happens among Dominicans.
With that said, Cubans are on average much whiter than Dominicans or Puerto Ricans.
In my experience, most Cubans are either white or black. While Dominicans and Puerto Ricans are more mixed. Dominicans tend be a more black-leaning Mulatto, while Puerto Ricans tend to be a more white-leaning Mulatto/Triracial. But all in all, all 3 countries have large numbers of Blacks, Whites, and Multiracials.
Many Dominicans are a lot Blacker than 30% West Africa. You'll find some very Black Dominicans if you actually go to the Dominican Republic. Ditto Cuba.
You wouldn't have to go that far. You can just hop on the train to a Washington Heights/Upper-west Harlem community and see very many Dominicans who are predominantly or totally of African appearance.
They aren't the only ones in NYC either. Panamanians, Costa Ricans, and all manner of Latin Americans in NYC are often completely African-looking. I met a black-looking woman in NYC, who told me she was "Garifuna"(Honduras). Needless to say, I had never heard of that.
I was fascinated by Spanish-speaking black people when I first came to NYC. I had never seen that before. Stranger still was the fact that they aren't considered to be "black" at all in NYC - not by themselves nor by others. People will correct you saying things like, "No, Mario is not black, he's Spanish."
The only exception are Cuban-Americans. Even though a rare Cuban in the U.S is black, they are the only ones, in my experience, who actually say that they are black and have an Afro-descent identity.
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