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Old 02-16-2018, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Flatland
39 posts, read 52,502 times
Reputation: 173

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarHero45 View Post
I lived briefly in two Latin American countries: Cuba and Panama. Also, I've studied many world cultures in depth.

Here's the thing about Latin America: political correctness is virtually non-existent. People say what's on their minds and don't seem to care. That's how it is in most parts of the world outside the U.S., Canada, and Northwestern Europe. When you take this into consideration, you'll realize Latin America isn't much more racist than the U.S. Classist? Yes. But racist? Debatable.

Honestly, 15 years ago, the OP may have had a point. However, the U.S. has become a very racially divided country over the last 15 years with tons of identity politics and quasi-nationalism on all fronts, including the rise of the Alt-Right, white/black/Chicano extremist groups, etc. Plus, the mainstream media race baits and tries to keep people divided any chance it gets and people fall for it hook, line, and sinker. Today, I don't see how people can keep peddling the idea that the U.S. is this kumbaya singing utopia compared to Latin America.

Of course, "Latin America" itself is a massive region full of different countries to begin with. I see no evidence that the U.S. embraces its black population and roots any more than Puerto Rico, Venezuela, modern day Cuba, Uruguay, Costa Rica, Dominican Republic and Panama. In all those countries, blackness is treated as the norm, even by the white population. They also embrace African traditions through music like salsa, mambo, Bachata, cambomde, etc. as well as preservation of Yoruba spirituality.

Im Uruguay, more than 100,000 people worship a Yoruba god/goddess and the number is even greater in Cuba and Brazil. Also, Santeria is widely practiced and sometimes embraced as opposed to being "evil." Even in New Orleans, white Americans don't mess with voodoo or African rooted spirituality. Also, many whites in those countries, excluding Uruguay, don't mind embracing black roots as part of their identity along with the Spanish and Native identity. In Puerto Rico and Venezuela, even whites will often say they have black blood in them even without proof. Most White Americans will almost never acknowledge having black blood in them even with proof. It's too stigmatized in the U.S. due to the one drop rule which doesn't exist in most of Latin America.

Now, Colombia and Brazil have much more racial issues involving blacks in comparison mainly because of the segregation in both countries. Colombia is divided primarily into five regions: the Andean Region(full of whites and Mestizos), the Caribbean(full of Tri-racials, mulattoes, and blacks), the Pacific(full of blacks and Zambos), the Amazon(full of Amerindians and Mestizos), and the Orinoquia(which is more of a melting pot). Generally, the biggest divide is between the Andean region and the Pacific/Caribbean/Amazonian regions. Also, in Brazil, there is a big divide between South Brazil(which is mostly white like Uruguay) and Northeast Brazil(which has tons of Pardos and blacks along with others).

Nevertheless, many Colombians and Brazilians still have a normalized view of blackness in spite of their racial/regional divides because of the large black and mixed populations. A black Brazilian generally shares the same culture as a white Brazilian and they both will reach that consensus. The same holds true for white and black Colombians. Despite their divides, they're still more unified than white and black Americans today imho.

And, generally speaking, other Latin American countries with smaller black populations have far more of an issue with racism towards Indigenous than blacks. Such cases include Argentina, Chile, Northern Mexico, Peru, Guatemala, and El Salvador. Then, you have countries that have equal racism towards both like Honduras and Nicaragua.

You CAN make the case the Latin America has more of an issue towards anti-Native racism than the U.S. but that's a pretty unfair comparison to begin with since Natives are only 1% of the U.S. population. Besides, here's what goes with many Native communities in the U.S.:
Perspective: When racism enters realm of South Dakota sports
Yes, Alaskans can talk about racism | Community Perspectives | newsminer.com
https://www.dailyrepublic.com/opinio...shames-us-all/
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...o-be-homeless/
Why Are So Many Native Americans Killed By Police?
https://www.southdakotadashboard.org...ans-in-poverty

As you can see, the U.S. hardly treats Natives any better than Latin America. Many Natives in the U.S. have to deal with racism, poverty, homelessness, alcoholism, police brutality, etc. in areas that are filled with Native Americans.

Generally speaking, a lot of racism in Latin America is driven by regionalism/nationalism and class. Haitians are treated poorly in the DR but black Dominicans don't have to deal with those issues. Black Colombians are treated poorly in Venezuela but black Venezuelans don't have that same stigma. Also, countries like Chile, Mexico, Brazil, and Venezuela have really opened up their doors to Haitian immigrants and there's no particular right wing extremists threatening their lives or attacking them. Also, Chile may have problems with indigenous looking Peruvian/Bolivian immigrants but the local Mapuche are treated pretty fine there.


It's hard to explain because it's so complex. Plus, not every Latin American country is the same. One thing I will say is that the U.S. beauty standards aren't as Eurocentric as Latin America's. That's a fact and something that needs to change since many black and Indigenous Latinas in particular suffer low self esteem because of it. However, when it comes to actual manifestations of racism/xenophobia, I don't see how Latin America is any worse than the U.S. today. I'm serious.
Bravo! Great posting. Could not have said it better.

I agree with you particularly on the statements in bold italic above. In my experience after 30+ years living in the continental US, I have met very few (if any) whites who will acknowledge without hesitation the historical and cultural influence of blacks to the country's make up. Undeniably LA still have issues to deal with when it comes to classicism and treatment of native populations. But comparably speaking not as potentially explosive as in the US.

 
Old 02-17-2018, 10:12 AM
 
881 posts, read 924,805 times
Reputation: 488
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
"let me tell you about your country..."

never ever in my life I've heard about that "mejorar la raza" thing. Reading about it, it doesn't even make sense. One person would be "mejorando la raza" by marrying with another person from a higher "racial status". But then that other person would be "empeorando la raza" and messing up with his or her blood or heritage, by marrying with someone from a lower racial status (under such racial hierarchy, of course).

anyway such thing doesn't exists where I live. the very title of that article ("'Mejorar la raza': an example of racism in Latino culture") is extremely misleading and deceptive, suggesting that there is such thing as a "Latino" homogeneous culture, which is not true at all.
 
Old 02-17-2018, 08:40 PM
 
220 posts, read 173,545 times
Reputation: 243
Latin Americans descendants from either Spain or Portugal have adopted the same Southern European value system, that is that the indigenous people were human with a soul and they needed to be saved by the church. For the most part the indigenous culture has continued to thrive, grow, and has also mixed with the Southern European culture that came in waves.

In contrast the British or American Cultures have had strong genocidal tendencies in their psyche.
British did in Australia.
https://www.theguardian.com/australi...ous-queensland
Tasmania
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Grim_massacre
American genocide of the indians.
https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780...rican-genocide
Canada
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...ticle14853747/
 
Old 02-18-2018, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Round Rock, TX
3,255 posts, read 1,723,053 times
Reputation: 1081
Quote:
Originally Posted by naners1 View Post
Latin Americans descendants from either Spain or Portugal have adopted the same Southern European value system, that is that the indigenous people were human with a soul and they needed to be saved by the church. For the most part the indigenous culture has continued to thrive, grow, and has also mixed with the Southern European culture that came in waves.

In contrast the British or American Cultures have had strong genocidal tendencies in their psyche.
British did in Australia.
https://www.theguardian.com/australi...ous-queensland
Tasmania
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Grim_massacre
American genocide of the indians.
https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780...rican-genocide
Canada
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...ticle14853747/
Yikes! I wasn't aware there was actually a lot of attempted genocide. I did know of the Native Americans of course.
 
Old 02-18-2018, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Round Rock, TX
3,255 posts, read 1,723,053 times
Reputation: 1081
I am also interested in maybe a video surrounding/regarding/discussing the beauty standards around Latin America.
 
Old 02-19-2018, 02:08 PM
 
1,553 posts, read 2,450,768 times
Reputation: 1342
I will only talk about Peru since other than the Dominican Republic, this is the only country I have visited in Latin America and I don't think I have a full grasp on race relations in the Dominican Republic yet, especially since I was not there for too long.

From my understanding Peru has never had the Jim Crow laws like the US, I also don't know if Peru has ever had miscegenation laws since over a third is mixed race and of Mestizo heritage.

You will see Peruvians of all races blend together just fine, at least where I was at in Lima. However that does not mean there is no racism. Peruvians will often make fun of blacks and the Indigenous (which is stupid since most are of Indigenous background). They might say things like "blacks only think until noon", "blacks can't possibly be mentally fit to perform well in white collar jobs" or even things like "I might step on your tail" to a black person. It is also normal to see negative portrayals of Indigenous people on Peruvian TV as evidenced by such shows as Al Fondo Hay Sitio, When you accuse Peruvians of being racist, they might assert "well you know we are just joking around." If you keep pointing this racism out they will see you as "overly dramatic" "paranoid" and even "crazy."

I am Peruvian American and I am proud of who I am but this is such a backwards mentality to have.

A nation can never fully progress if they have too much self hatred. Which is what I personally feel Peru has too much of. We should embrace our Indigenous and African roots, instead.

Is Peru one of the worst countries in Latin America when it comes to these types of race issues? I have not traveled much in Latin America and would like to know.
 
Old 02-20-2018, 01:42 PM
 
5,051 posts, read 3,584,419 times
Reputation: 6512
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarHero45 View Post
I lived briefly in two Latin American countries: Cuba and Panama. Also, I've studied many world cultures in depth.

Here's the thing about Latin America: political correctness is virtually non-existent. People say what's on their minds and don't seem to care. That's how it is in most parts of the world outside the U.S., Canada, and Northwestern Europe. When you take this into consideration, you'll realize Latin America isn't much more racist than the U.S. Classist? Yes. But racist? Debatable.

...

Now, Colombia and Brazil have much more racial issues involving blacks in comparison mainly because of the segregation in both countries. Colombia is divided primarily into five regions: the Andean Region(full of whites and Mestizos), the Caribbean(full of Tri-racials, mulattoes, and blacks), the Pacific(full of blacks and Zambos), the Amazon(full of Amerindians and Mestizos), and the Orinoquia(which is more of a melting pot). Generally, the biggest divide is between the Andean region and the Pacific/Caribbean/Amazonian regions. Also, in Brazil, there is a big divide between South Brazil(which is mostly white like Uruguay) and Northeast Brazil(which has tons of Pardos and blacks along with others).

Nevertheless, many Colombians and Brazilians still have a normalized view of blackness in spite of their racial/regional divides because of the large black and mixed populations. A black Brazilian generally shares the same culture as a white Brazilian and they both will reach that consensus. The same holds true for white and black Colombians. Despite their divides, they're still more unified than white and black Americans today imho.

And, generally speaking, other Latin American countries with smaller black populations have far more of an issue with racism towards Indigenous than blacks. Such cases include Argentina, Chile, Northern Mexico, Peru, Guatemala, and El Salvador. Then, you have countries that have equal racism towards both like Honduras and Nicaragua.

...

Generally speaking, a lot of racism in Latin America is driven by regionalism/nationalism and class. Haitians are treated poorly in the DR but black Dominicans don't have to deal with those issues. Black Colombians are treated poorly in Venezuela but black Venezuelans don't have that same stigma. Also, countries like Chile, Mexico, Brazil, and Venezuela have really opened up their doors to Haitian immigrants and there's no particular right wing extremists threatening their lives or attacking them. Also, Chile may have problems with indigenous looking Peruvian/Bolivian immigrants but the local Mapuche are treated pretty fine there.


It's hard to explain because it's so complex. Plus, not every Latin American country is the same. One thing I will say is that the U.S. beauty standards aren't as Eurocentric as Latin America's. That's a fact and something that needs to change since many black and Indigenous Latinas in particular suffer low self esteem because of it. However, when it comes to actual manifestations of racism/xenophobia, I don't see how Latin America is any worse than the U.S. today. I'm serious.
I am not sure whether you are seeking input or just wish to share your viewpoints. I have worked in Latam for 20 years and can say I disagree with much of opinions expressed above in particular what's written in italics above.

Racism in Latin America is endemic to all of Latin America and systemic to their culture and institutions. It it more akin to Racism in the US in before the 1960s.
 
Old 02-21-2018, 07:14 AM
 
25,556 posts, read 23,993,609 times
Reputation: 10120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacanegro View Post
I am not sure whether you are seeking input or just wish to share your viewpoints. I have worked in Latam for 20 years and can say I disagree with much of opinions expressed above in particular what's written in italics above.

Racism in Latin America is endemic to all of Latin America and systemic to their culture and institutions. It it more akin to Racism in the US in before the 1960s.
Where in Latin America (huge region), what countries, what's your race, where are you from, etc?

Even how people perceive things is based on what they went through in their home country and how they are lived in their home country.

Racism in the US before the 1960 outlawed marriages between Blacks and whites. One drop of Black blood made you black. You quite clearly do not have this line of thinking in Latin America. US racism often said mixed race people were inferior to either race, since the US authorities did not approve of anything that could lead to interracial reproduction (though obviously this did happen somewhat during slavery).

You'll find in parts of Latin America people putting on Blackface and other stuff like that, and activists have been coming out strong against that. But to claim that Latin America is like the US before the 60s means you don't have much of an understanding of Latin America or the US.

Segregation in the US South meant Blacks attended all Black k-12, and had to attend Black colleges. Blacks in Latin America had poor educational opportunities, no doubt, but there was never a system of Black colleges for them to go to. So as activists opened the door for natives and blacks in higher education they went to the same places as everyone else.
 
Old 02-21-2018, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Northeast
1,153 posts, read 632,016 times
Reputation: 1071
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacanegro View Post
I am not sure whether you are seeking input or just wish to share your viewpoints. I have worked in Latam for 20 years and can say I disagree with much of opinions expressed above in particular what's written in italics above.

Racism in Latin America is endemic to all of Latin America and systemic to their culture and institutions. It it more akin to Racism in the US in before the 1960s.
I never said racism was minimal in Latin America. I just said Latin America isn't much more racist than the U.S.
 
Old 02-21-2018, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Canada
7,363 posts, read 8,415,626 times
Reputation: 5260
Some South Americans seem more concerned about looks more than race.
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