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Old 03-09-2018, 08:25 AM
 
453 posts, read 317,321 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EVANGELISTTI View Post
It is not true.
In Brazil Portuguese married a lot with Amerindians and then their children married with Portuguese or Indians.
If Baptized the Indians had the same rights than Portuguese.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caramuru
Same in Spanish America. marriage among races was common and legal.

"In the Spanish Caribbean colonies a royal decrees known as "Regla del Sacar or Gracias al Sacar," under which a person of African ancestry could be considered legally white if able to prove they also had ancestors with at least one person per generation in the last four generations who had been legally white. Therefore, people of black ancestry with known white lineage became classified as white. This was the opposite of the later "one-drop rule" of hypodescent in the United States, whereby persons of any known African ancestry were classified as black"

This is the reason why most mixed race Latin american find odd that they are forced to identify as black when move to the US when back in their countries they belong to the large creole/mixed class.

 
Old 03-09-2018, 08:28 AM
 
990 posts, read 879,142 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFP View Post
By whom? If they were born within marriage weren't they recorded as legitimate son's or daughters?
Yes they were.
Not just children from Portuguese and Amerindian or Portuguese and black African, but if their both parents were not white, but baptized Christians they were legitimate children with rights in the inheritance

Our fathers founders were not the rapist that many people think... They married with native Brazilians (indians princess of portuguese's allied tribes) and raised kids as we do nowadays

https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartira
 
Old 03-09-2018, 10:00 AM
AFP
 
7,412 posts, read 6,891,093 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EVANGELISTTI View Post
Yes they were.
Not just children from Portuguese and Amerindian or Portuguese and black African, but if their both parents were not white, but baptized Christians they were legitimate children with rights in the inheritance

Our fathers founders were not the rapist that many people think... They married with native Brazilians (indians princess of portuguese's allied tribes) and raised kids as we do nowadays

https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartira

This history is not known by many people but it is absolutely the truth. I've corrected numerous people on this topic.
 
Old 03-09-2018, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Canada
7,363 posts, read 8,397,426 times
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Yeah that was true in Spanish colonies as well. It is well documented.
 
Old 03-11-2018, 11:11 PM
 
Location: Northeast
1,153 posts, read 630,425 times
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Even though there's racism in Latin America, I do believe the U.S. makes Latinos more race conscious.

Many Mestizo and white Latinos in the U.S. don't like to be associated with Afro Latinos at all, whereas it's slightly more common in Latin America.

A lot of black Panamanians in Brooklyn associate with West Indians as opposed to Guatemalans/Salvadorans/Mexicans typically . And black Costa Ricans, Cubans, Hondurans, and Guatemalans are RARELY seen in integrated environments with their non-black counterparts.

I think that's why so many Afro-Latinos in the U.S. are developing a "Pan African" mindset these days. They were never really embraced by Mestizo and white Hispanics in the U.S. to begin with as a whole. And, if you ask me, it's only a matter of time before Indigenous Hispanics in the U.S. follow suit, judging from how they get treated as well.

Of course, there's many parts of Latin America where this type of segregation is common, but it also seems more common to see integrated environments compared to the U.S.
 
Old 03-12-2018, 08:44 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarHero45 View Post
Even though there's racism in Latin America, I do believe the U.S. makes Latinos more race conscious.

Many Mestizo and white Latinos in the U.S. don't like to be associated with Afro Latinos at all, whereas it's slightly more common in Latin America.

A lot of black Panamanians in Brooklyn associate with West Indians as opposed to Guatemalans/Salvadorans/Mexicans typically . And black Costa Ricans, Cubans, Hondurans, and Guatemalans are RARELY seen in integrated environments with their non-black counterparts.

I think that's why so many Afro-Latinos in the U.S. are developing a "Pan African" mindset these days. They were never really embraced by Mestizo and white Hispanics in the U.S. to begin with as a whole. And, if you ask me, it's only a matter of time before Indigenous Hispanics in the U.S. follow suit, judging from how they get treated as well.

Of course, there's many parts of Latin America where this type of segregation is common, but it also seems more common to see integrated environments compared to the U.S.
Most of those latinos of black heritage are in fact of black English speaking Caribbean heritage, black costa ricans, Panamanians, ect. Thats why they like to associate with other English speaking blacks. Cuba is a different case as segregation, slavery ect lasted longer there, racism is Cuba was very prevalent. but i dont think DR, PR or even Brazil follows that trend, Black Dominicans or puertoricans do not live segregated from each other.
 
Old 03-15-2018, 12:17 AM
 
Location: Scottsdale
2,073 posts, read 1,641,845 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luciano700 View Post
Well, the Mexican government didn't even start recognizing blacks as an official minority until 2015 too for that matter
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b0c8beacf50f6b


I do imagine though different factors could play a role unlike the US, still something shocking to know. Cuz Mexico has had gay marriage and abortions longer than the US for that matter.
Many Mexicans are part West African and/or North African. The genetic heritage of modern Mexico involves the syncretism of three cultures and regions: indigenous American, Spanish European and West African. The latter is usually denied though.

So, what was the root cause of dential? Colonial racism with slavery, colorism, genocide and the the Spanish casta. The darker Latin Americans with more African and/or indigenous blood were generally at the bottom of the Spanish casta. The aftermath of this socioeconomic barrier can still be seen today with the asymmetric distribution of wealth and lack of upward social mobiility for those who can trace their roots to the bottom of the "Casta".
 
Old 03-15-2018, 09:47 AM
AFP
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grad_student200 View Post
Many Mexicans are part West African and/or North African. The genetic heritage of modern Mexico involves the syncretism of three cultures and regions: indigenous American, Spanish European and West African. The latter is usually denied though.

So, what was the root cause of dential? Colonial racism with slavery, colorism, genocide and the the Spanish casta. The darker Latin Americans with more African and/or indigenous blood were generally at the bottom of the Spanish casta. The aftermath of this socioeconomic barrier can still be seen today with the asymmetric distribution of wealth and lack of upward social mobiility for those who can trace their roots to the bottom of the "Casta".


Where did you get that graph on the Colonial Caste system? It doesn't look correct for Latin America in general and some of the terms seem American-centric. Criollos weren't a mixture of white and black they were the descendants of Spaniards born in the colonies although they could have 1/8 Amerindian ancestry. Don't assume that similar sounding terms have the same meaning. In addition terms like white American is a USA term you are mixing things up I really hate it when Americans(Black and White) impose their racial hang ups on other cultures and spread false information.

Last edited by AFP; 03-15-2018 at 10:18 AM..
 
Old 03-15-2018, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Northeast
1,153 posts, read 630,425 times
Reputation: 1071
Since Latin America is a highly diverse region with many different cultures, here's a generalized view of Latin America for gringos:

Latin American countries/regions that I feel are less accepting of blacks than the U.S.: Southern Brazil, Andean region(Colombia), Ecuador, Peru, Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, Argentina, Nicaragua

Latin American countries/regions that I feel are more accepting of blacks more than the U.S.: Cuba, Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic, Northeast Brazil, Cartagena(Colombia), Venezuela, Uruguay, Panama, Costa Rica

Latin American countries/regions that are about the same as the U.S.: Mexico, Chile, Paraguay, Bolivia

I would also do a Native/indigenous comparison but it's trickier since Native American descendants are far more prevalent in Latin America than the U.S.

Anyways, these are generalizations, but I feel there's a lot of truth to each of them.

Even Mexico and Chile are accepting more Haitian refugees than the U.S.(especially with this country's scrapping of DACA), with little to no backlash or violence from locals so even they are starting to lean towards the 2nd category.

There are Latin American countries and regions with legitimate racial issues but you really have to specify instead of just saying "Latin America."
 
Old 03-15-2018, 12:25 PM
 
1,187 posts, read 1,370,922 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarHero45 View Post
Latin American countries/regions that I feel are less accepting of blacks than the U.S.: Southern Brazil, Andean region(Colombia), Ecuador, Peru, Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, Argentina, Nicaragua

Latin American countries/regions that I feel are more accepting of blacks more than the U.S.: Cuba, Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic, Northeast Brazil, Cartagena(Colombia), Venezuela, Uruguay, Panama, Costa Rica

Latin American countries/regions that are about the same as the U.S.: Mexico, Chile, Paraguay, Bolivia
Not this confusion again! The fact that there are few blacks in Argentina doesn't mean people don't like them. Furthermore, as they aren't a demographically significant group (hence little overall influence on a daily basis), I'd say Argentinians are neutral or even welcoming (curious) towards blacks.

Go back to this other post in which the same issue had come up: https://www.city-data.com/forum/ameri...l#post47480376

I suspect it may be similar in Southern Brazil and Chile.
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