National Guard...and then some...to AZ border (fences, authority)

[AZDesertBrat]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948

if AZ is in the wrong. why is the federal government suing them? why are they sending federal troops now? a consistent behavior pattern, the government is far more concerned about citizen uprisings than citizen protection. i am beginning to really admire mccain.

At this point maybe they SHOULD be concerned about "citizen uprisings".

NOTHING will ever make me admire McCain.

[Bummer]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948

if AZ is in the wrong. why is the federal government suing them? why are they sending federal troops now? a consistent behavior pattern, the government is far more concerned about citizen uprisings than citizen protection. i am beginning to really admire mccain.

Originally Posted by AZDesertBrat

At this point maybe they SHOULD be concerned about "citizen uprisings".

NOTHING will ever make me admire McCain.

Over the years, it has become extremely difficult to admire John McCain due to his flip-flopping and outright lying on many very important issues . . . primarily Illegal Immigration and Amnesty.

Yes, I voted for him, however, I was very disappointed when he turned his back on the citizens of Arizona when he "jumped in bed" with Ted Kennedy who was notorious for pandering to the Illegals as well as the Illegal Lovers.

Perfume the Pig any way you want, however, with that despicable flip-flop, he became a TRAITOR in my book . . . nothing more; nothing less.

[AZDesertBrat]

Originally Posted by Bummer

Over the years, it has become extremely difficult to admire John McCain due to his flip-flopping and outright lying on many very important issues . . . primarily Illegal Immigration and Amnesty.

Yes, I voted for him, however, I was very disappointed when he turned his back on the citizens of Arizona when he "jumped in bed" with Ted Kennedy who was notorious for pandering to the Illegals as well as the Illegal Lovers.

Perfume the Pig any way you want, however, with that despicable flip-flop, he became a TRAITOR in my book . . . nothing more; nothing less.

My mom excuses McCain's flip flopping, and not voting on his own bills, because they "changed the meaning" but I noticed he never went back and tried to make them better either. Just dropped things and let them lie. After all these years I am STILL waiting for him to do anything half way substantial for this state. He has disappointed me to the point where I'll be HAPPY to see him voted OUT. And why is it, anytime his name comes up, John Kyl is too. What are they? Joined at the hip???

[jaada]

Originally Posted by AZDesertBrat

Seems that way, doesn't it? I work at Wal Mart and they are real sticklers about it too, in public. They will even reprimand you if you swear and they hear you!

People never know, anymore, if you're serious about a "lawsuit" or not. Seems like people sue for any and every thing anymore so better safe than sorry, I guess.

they reprimand you for saying a swear word? oh i'd be fired. lol

[revelated]

The government has a black eye. Instead of fixing the issue (enforcing its own law, supporting initiatives that enforce its law, go after sanctuary cities/states, strengthen the borders), they are sending troops to make it look like they care. The reality is, until it's a shoot-to-kill order, the government isn't doing anything.

[kdog]

Originally Posted by revelated

The reality is, until it's a shoot-to-kill order, the government isn't doing anything.

There will never be, nor should there be a shoot to kill order on the border. That would be cold blooded murder.

[revelated]

Originally Posted by kdog

There will never be, nor should there be a shoot to kill order on the border. That would be cold blooded murder.

I'm not equipped to talk about what "should" be and neither are you. All I'm saying is, while we have this policy of "yell at the immigrants to go back even if they don't listen" and "just pick them up and carry them back over the line", nothing will get done.

A perfect analogy is a bunch of mice trying to escape a cage at once. You can only catch so many; some slip by and are gone, and even if you do manage to get all of them back into the cage, they'll just escape again. If there's no fear, there's no stopping them, essentially.

As a side note, keep in mind that in some countries, being shot is definitely a possibility for violating borders. Not saying it's right or wrong, I'm just saying that such a dynamic exists elsewhere and they're not overrun.

[Bummer]

Originally Posted by kdog

There will never be, nor should there be a shoot to kill order on the border. That would be cold blooded murder.

Must disagree with you on this one, Kdog.

In spite of sounding cold and uncaring, a "shoot to kill" policy would actually save lives in the long haul. Hundreds, if not thousands, of lives are lost in the desert every year due to the "false hope" promoted by the coyotes as well as the illegal lovers who selfishly and ignorantly encourage the Illegals to venture out into the desert under such horrific conditions.

Stopping the Illegals at the border would eliminate most of these deaths.

[kdog]

All it would take is one claim of a child lost in the desert who stumbled into the shoot-to-kill zone and was shot to cause an international uproar. Notice I said "claim". It would be hard to prove or disprove one way or another. You simply can't shoot unarmed people for trespassing. What are you guys thinking?

[revelated]

Originally Posted by kdog

You simply can't shoot unarmed people for trespassing.

ORLY?

http://www.jerrypippin.com/Area_51_editorial_2.jpg

Now, what did you say? Why is it ok for the government to effectively shoot you for heading into Area 51 but it's not ok for the government to shoot those who cross into our territory illegally?

Again, I'm not giving right or wrong. I'm saying that there is precedent for shooting someone for trespassing, regardless of armed status, and this is really no different. It's about authority to be in a given location. The government can say that certain people are not authorized to be in a given area; their job is to secure the border from those who come in without being authorized to be here. As I said before, until there is a shoot-to-kill order to at least quell the flood of illegals, the government is just posturing. Frankly I'd be satisfied to see them create an impenetrable border and funnel resources to ensuring it stays that way (boggles my mind that we can create prison walls that can't be bypassed yet we can't deal with the border properly) and deal with the illegals already here. But in lieu of a proper border, something's got to be done.