Young African American Family relocating (Phoenix, Gilbert: theater, best schools, income)
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My husband and I are presently living in TX. He is from Finland Europe and I am from Houston TX. We have been talking about moving out of TX. And have considered AZ. I have no problem living in a city were the black population is about 4%. I would have a problem not being able to have a hair salon that does not do black hair. I will not let this discourage me. Because I see myself as one for making things happen. If someone is reading these blogs. That should how there is a need for black business. I would love to open a soul food restaurant for everyone. White and Black. I love reading about AZ and will still consider moving there.
There are many salons for black hair. 4% of 4 million is 160000 black folks looking for hair services.
Sierra Vista is a good place, outside Fort Huachuca the population is more than half military or retired military, very diverse. Raytheon is here. It's also 10 degrees cooler than Tucson
Yes, I'm back. I'm responding due to many personal messages in my box. Let's get this straight once and for all. A white person cannot tell a black person what Arizona is really like. If you want to get a good idea of what's it's like here for many others (blacks) who have moved here, type in things like blacks and Arizona and see what you come up with.
You'll come up with several other threads that have honest comments. They'll mostly show comments from OTHER BLACKS who agree with some or most of what I've tried to tell you. Not a great place to live and raise a family for blacks.
Also, on the threads, you'll constantly read comments from white people discrediting or denying what WE perceive as black transplants here. That in and of itself speaks volumes. How the heck can THEY tell us what it's like here? Then, they will attempt to accuse US of having bad attitudes or being negative or probably can't get along with others. They may even accuse us of being racist. Then, the thread closes.
If you want to know what it's really like here. Come for a visit for at least, 1 week. Yes, people will show you all the pretty things, pretty places, cheap new homes, but here is my advice. Look for 4 or 5 black folks (if you can find them) and ask THEM what they REALLY think. Initially, they mayl try to be positive. They have to because they're stuck here and probably can't sell their house or afford to leave their job and go back. Then, they'll tell you what it's really like.
I'm trying to warn you now. TURN BACK.
Also, when people claim it's diverse here, what they're really referring to are Hispanics. We're very close to the border. So, illegal immigration is very high. So, the most diversity you will see here are hispanic restaurants everywhere, hispanic shops, mostly hispanic radio stations, etc. That's all the diversity you're going to get honey.
However, if you're from a black frat or soror, attend a black church then you'll probably be able to find a small network of OTHERS. If not, you're in trouble. And that is the truth.
If you have children, you're in trouble. Good luck finding a decent school that meets or exceeds your standards.
If you come here single, you're even in bigger trouble. Unless you plan on dating outside of your race, have fun being single!
And don't even THINK about having a yearning for soul food. It's like looking for a needle in a hay stack. You'll find it, but it will be a lot of work.
However, if after all of this you still have to move here move to Phoenix. From what I've learned, it's a city and has more to offer us in terms of actually having a few beauty salons, clubs and restaurants. Just remember, it won't be anything like where you came from.
I don't think there is a single city in the entire state of Arizona where the percentage of blacks is in the double digits.
Oh you're right. There isn't. But even if there isn't a place in the state of AZ where there's black people in double digits, it's abolutely startling to me that there isn't a place in AZ where there's a large percentage of people who don't treat people of color as if they expect them to still be enslaved (like the 1800's) or as if they are insignificant, beneath them or even as if they are back in the Mobile, AL or Jackson, Mississippi circa 1960 something.
Case in point - Seattle, Washington. Seattle barely has an African American population yet the majority of white people I've met from Seattle, Washington are absolutely wonderful! If they dislike you, it's because they really don't like you - rarely is it because we've got a permanent tan and they don't. Seriously, they couldn't care less! All they care about is whether the person they are dealing with (black or non-black) is a good person. That's all. But this is not the experience that I've had while in Arizona and there's something really wrong with that.
The sad thing about the way many white people behave in AZ (I'll speak for Phoenix and the surrounding areas) is that it makes decent white people look bad. It gets to the point where you see this kind of ignorant behavior and blatant animousity surface so much that when a white person is being a normal, decent person it takes us forever to drop our shields and acknowledge them for the human being that they are and that's sad......
What's sadder is that the people are so sheltered here that chances are, it will not change and that's too bad because nowadays (in a country of such mixed heritage) if you don't know how to deal with everybody, great opportunities of every kind (financial and emotional) will be missed or harmed.*****
Oh you're right. There isn't. But even if there isn't a place in the state of AZ where there's black people in double digits, it's abolutely startling to me that there isn't a place in AZ where there's a large percentage of people who don't treat people of color as if they expect them to still be enslaved (like the 1800's) or as if they are insignificant, beneath them or even as if they are back in the Mobile, AL or Jackson, Mississippi circa 1960 something.
Case in point - Seattle, Washington. Seattle barely has an African American population yet the majority of white people I've met from Seattle, Washington are absolutely wonderful! If they dislike you, it's because they really don't like you - rarely is it because we've got a permanent tan and they don't. Seriously, they couldn't care less! All they care about is whether the person they are dealing with (black or non-black) is a good person. That's all. But this is not the experience that I've had while in Arizona and there's something really wrong with that.
The sad thing about the way many white people behave in AZ (I'll speak for Phoenix and the surrounding areas) is that it makes decent white people look bad. It gets to the point where you see this kind of ignorant behavior and blatant animousity surface so much that when a white person is being a normal, decent person it takes us forever to drop our shields and acknowledge them for the human being that they are and that's sad......
What's sadder is that the people are so sheltered here that chances are, it will not change and that's too bad because nowadays (in a country of such mixed heritage) if you don't know how to deal with everybody, great opportunities of every kind (financial and emotional) will be missed or harmed.*****
@Jaine, I hate to even have to agree with some of what you've pointed out. It's a painful truth. Truth is, whites here are the majority and they know there aren't a lot of us here, so maybe they feel like they don't have to care about learning how to deal with anyone else or missed opportunities. Your point is good though. However, blacks who are considering what it's like here BEFORE THEY MOVE need to know the real deal. Sad thing is, they'll say you're wrong or something is wrong with you for even saying it. I have only 1 friend left here. She's hispanic. The other 2, who were white got out of dodge because they couldn't stand it. They moved to Texas for the schools. There are some really nice folks here, but by golly you have to hunt for them. My other so so friends, who were kind enough to seek me out, are white but NOT from here. Whereas, in Cali or other places I've lived it was easy. My friend is my rock here. She helps me hold it together and confirms what I, and many like us feel. Good luck in all you look for.
Last edited by annibelle; 11-10-2009 at 10:09 PM..
Reason: corrections
Still surprised by your post. I was told by other blacks that Phoenix has more (but not much) to offer. I still think it does in spite of the almost social death experienced here. All we can do is laugh to keep from crying. Ha, ha , ha, ha.
Last edited by annibelle; 11-10-2009 at 10:14 PM..
Reason: additions
I read older posts about other people saying how if there are no black salons in the area (or not enough), then there is a need so open one. What? That's funny. First, if according to the census records there is a very small percentage of blacks in the entire state, why would anyone open a black beauty salon? If you do, this will happen. There won't be enough customers and it will eventually close down within a few years. You need enough customers to keep it running, don't you? This is what happened to a sad little soul food restaurant I found. I went there a few times. This year, it closed. Maybe it's the recession OR maybe there just aren't enough people (blacks) in this state or area that actually crave this type of food.
This REALLY pisses me off! If a had a penny for everytime I was called a honky or cracker! I moved from AZ to Mississippi and too many of the blacks want to live "separating" themselves rather than being part of a larger picture of a diverse community. I wish someone had told me to never move to Mississippi - the reverse discrimination is abominable! The blacks have “their” places and God forbid if you go there as a white person! Heck – there is a Wal –Mart here that apparently BELONGS to the blacks and the black cashiers will close out their drawer or turn their back and leave for break when it’s your turn in line. Then they giggle about it with the manager! Just one of many experiences that has taught me what racism is – I did not learn it from the black friends I had growing up in AZ. SO RUDE! I could say “unprofessional” but the words would be lost on people who practice such trivial behavior. Racism does not apply specifically to black people!
You all could learn a lesson of two from our Mexican population! I went to high school and college in AZ and most of my friends were of different races than my self - didn't matter one bit! If someone asked me what race a friend of mine was – I’d really have to think about it – it’s transparent. I’d probably asked them to clarify the question! In my experience, blacks from the south seem to want to draw lines between cultures. However on a positive note - the black behavior I have experienced has given me a new APPRECIATION for AZ Hispanic population with their real struggles and how well they assimilate in to their communities. I'm sure if someone said "hang em high" it would mean something totally different to you - than it does to us in Arizona. You would be ready to scream and sue whoever said it.. Get over it or please leave.
Yes, by all means tell the original poster that they shouldn't listen to the advice of other African-Americans who have moved from another state into Arizona! That makes soooo much sense! After all it's clear that you - a person of non color who has never lived a single day as a black person in the state of Arizona would know a great deal more about the African-American experience in Arizona than say....... another African-American, right?
Woooooowwww.....that makes absolutely no sense and I think you know it!
Listen, please don't take this personally. I know it's hard not to. After all anytime someone talks about someone we relate to, it's very hard not to feel personally attacked. Trust me, I know. But the fact of the matter is that you shouldn't feel personally attacked because if you honestly don't mistreat people, then we're not talking about you. You're not the only one that lives in Arizona and I do recall people saying that there are MANY racist white people here. Not all - but enough to decrease the quality of life and you can't argue with numbers. When that many African-Americans move from one state into this one and find themselves very uncomfortable on a day to day basis, there's clearly an issue!
As for what happened to you in Mississippi - I know why it happened (and judging from the school system here they don't teach much about the African-American experience so your knowledge on this topic may be limited) but it still DOES NOT MAKE IT RIGHT!! Basically what they did was transfer the anger they feel for people who look like you onto you and since you didn't personally do anything to them it's messed up that they slighted you as if you did! But still, I find it very interesting that despite your experiences (which should have made you more understanding as a human being about how it feels to be the victim of overt and subtle racism) you somehow still failed to associate what happened with you in Mississippi with what is happening with African Americans when they move here! It's almost like, despite being treated the same way in Mississippi as we are here, you choose to go on the attack as if we were talking directly about you and minimize our experiences??? Interesting.
The point of this post is to tell the original poster what they can possibly expect if they move here. My question to you is this - wouldn't you have wanted someone to tell you what your experience in Mississippi might've been like before you got there? What if you told your story and people minimized it? What if they told you that your experiences weren't really valid, that everyone in Mississippi were friendly towards you and that everyone should disregard what you're saying? Because that is exactly what you're doing right now when you tell a poster NOT to listen to people who are experiencing it here!
So I say all of this to say please do not minimize what our experiences are in Arizona just because you wish Arizona was better than it is. It is what it is, like it or not and we would be remiss not to tell it like it is. We're not trying to tear you down but we ARE trying to make sure that if more African-Americans move here that they are prepared for and have the most realistic information possible and unfortunatelybecause you are not black and not from out of state, you cannot speak on the African-American experience.
See, you telling us about the African-American experience in Arizona is like an ophthalmologist trying to speak knowledgeably about gynecology with a woman! Sure we're both human beings but we have a different frame of reference and therefore only those knowledgeable in those areas should speak about it. Think about it.******
What to expect and other tips and warnings for living in AZ as an African American transplant
Quote:
Originally Posted by annibelle
I read older posts about other people saying how if there are no black salons in the area (or not enough), then there is a need so open one. What? That's funny. First, if according to the census records there is a very small percentage of blacks in the entire state, why would anyone open a black beauty salon? If you do, this will happen. There won't be enough customers and it will eventually close down within a few years. You need enough customers to keep it running, don't you? This is what happened to a sad little soul food restaurant I found. I went there a few times. This year, it closed. Maybe it's the recession OR maybe there just aren't enough people (blacks) in this state or area that actually crave this type of food.
Girl, tell me about it! I read a post that said that we have many hair salons out here for us and I was like "huh?". But then I thought about it and maybe a few salons spread out over the 12th largest metro area by land is considered "alot of salons" to some people. Maybe if I lived in the middle of Wyoming or I lived here all my life then I'd think 2 salons within 30 miles is more than enough!
Still, whether it's a black owned club, restaurant, hair salon, entertainment or cultural events....you name it.... it's very rarely here today and usually gone by tomorrow. So if any AA's still want to move here then they should be prepared to do some creative thinking!
So for the AA's who want to know what to expect out of the schools here, if you have kids and you want your children to be around people from different backgrounds and cultures, you'll have to decide between what AZ considers to be a good school and diversity! It's nearly impossible for you to have both here because interestingly enough the best schools just so happen to be in neighborhoods that are predominately white. Just go to greatschools.net and you'll see what I mean. The best way to tell how diverse a place really is, is by looking at the middle/junior high and high school demographics (racial make up). There it will become clear why I say that Phoenix and the surrounding areas are more segregated than they want to let on. Also note that even if the school is rated excellent or outstanding - understand they're just the best for Phoenix and the surrounding areas or for the state. Not comparable to the rest of the country. So even if you're child is doing well, you might have to consider tutoring or a place like Sylvan Learning Center to make sure that they keep pace with the rest of the country!
As for haircare, most salons here do not cater to us so you'll have to either do your hair yourself or rely on one of the few salons we have here. When picking your hairdresser try to subtly find out where they've been trained. Most of the schools here do not have extensive training in ethnic hair so if they are trained here, they may not be up on the latest in hair care as they might be learning on the fly. Try to find someone who does AA hair but isn't from here. Please note that you can't get too picky because there are very few good gairdressers and since they know it, they sometimes act like it. You will also have to consider buying products online or driving a few miles to get it.
As for anything else, you might have to fly back home for the kind of entertainment and the shopping experience you might like. Also, the one thing that I've found helpful is that once you start feeling the subtle unwelcoming vibes or experience animosity that you simply can't ignore any longer, you can always hop on a plane and head to San Diego for a break! After being here for so long it's an absolute delight to land in San Diego where you're not around people who don't look at you as if you're an alien, give you that polite yet passive aggressive fake smile with the look that says,"Go away" or simply look through you. That's what I've been doing and it's been helping until I can afford to move out of Phoenix.*****
Last edited by Jaine Blaize; 11-11-2009 at 12:54 AM..
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Is this still going?
You're but what's even sadder is.......
It gets to the point where you see this kind of ignorant behavior and blatant animousity surface so much that when a white person is being a normal, decent person it takes us forever to drop our shields and acknowledge them for the human being that they are and that's sad......
.
But the fact of the matter is that you shouldn't feel personally attacked because if you honestly don't mistreat people, then we're not talking about you. You're not the only one that lives in Arizona and I do recall people saying that there are MANY racist white people here. Not all - but enough to decrease the quality of life and you can't argue with numbers. When that many African-Americans move from one state into this one and find themselves very uncomfortable on a day to day basis, there's clearly an issue!
What to expect and other tips and warnings for living in AZ as an African American transplant
"huh?". But then I thought about it and maybe a few salons spread out over the 12th largest metro area by land is considered "alot of salons" to some people. Maybe if I lived in the middle of Wyoming or I lived here all my life then I'd think 2 salons within 30 miles is more than enough!
