Flagstaff, Phoenix or Tuscon? (Sun Valley: ski resorts, camping, living)

[steve22]

Originally Posted by Steel87

^^adelmo, nothing you said was out of line. Its definitely true. Steve22 does not realize that there are people who have different tastes from him. He is one who yearns urbanity, hates the desert and is intolerable to heat. Why live here? His comments can barely be taken with a grain of salt.

Uh, no. I don't hate the desert. As I've pointed out, I like Tucson, and I do like biking & hiking in Phoenix's parks and preserves during the cool times of the year when it's not crowded. Don't confuse Phoenix with the desert- it's not, or any facsimile thereof, anymore. Just a sprawling concrete jungle scattered for 100 miles in every direction, with no centralized core to speak of that's worth mentioning. What I hate is living in what feels like the world's biggest, hottest suburb- because, come to think of it, that's exactly what it is.


As far as my list of outdoor states, everyone's entitled to their own opinions, and I'm not surprised if people disagree with mine. It's just based on my own priorities and experiences, that's all. I probably would have a tough time living in Alaska as well, although I hear Anchorage is a phenomenal city to live in- one of the best kept secrets in the country.

As I said, I do like biking and hiking, both of which AZ has a great deal to enjoy- again, depending on where you are and the time of year. From May through October, you can't do much of either comfortably if you live in Phoenix unless you drive a few hours north.

But I also like to ski, surf, kayak, and fish, and that's where AZ loses big points with me- b/c those are things you either can't do here at all, or your options for them are so limited and mediocre that it's not worth the bother (sorry, but what passes for "skiing" in Flagstaff just doesn't cut it). That's why I ranked all the other western & Rocky Mountain states ahead of AZ.

[CodyW]

I agree with Steve22's list of places. I want to make it to all of them before I'm dead sure though.

And Adelmo, theres nothing wrong with trying to get people to see things your way. You say its as if he is telling people they CAN'T like Phoenix, because he doesn't. No. He's just trying to get people to see things his way. And really, you're doing the same thing. You're basically telling Steve that he CAN'T say anything bad about Phoenix because YOU said so.

Steve, don't kill me for trying to defend you. =P

[Lehi]

Originally Posted by steve22

But I also like to ski, surf, kayak, and fish, and that's where AZ loses big points with me- b/c those are things you either can't do here at all, or your options for them are so limited and mediocre that it's not worth the bother

You can't find a place to fish in Arizona? Are you referring to ocean fishing?

http://www.azgfd.gov/h_f/where_fish.shtml

[Nicole]

Originally Posted by Steel87

!!!! Just how fast do you drive?! I have never heard of Phoenix - LV in 4 hours?! haha.

Usually about 10 over, and I already live in the Northwest valley. If you live on the East side and drive like old man then it probably would take about 5 1/2 hours to get there.

[Steel87]

1. Alaska
2. Washington
3. Colorado
4. Utah
5. Hawaii
6. California
7. New Mexico
8. Montana
9. Wyoming
10. Oregon
11. Idaho
12. Arizona

Don't know why you stuck some Canadian provinces in this but, for much of this list I agree. Arizona isn't the top of best outdoor recreation, but its FAR from the worst. Two things I disagree with, Alaska and New Mexico, I wouldn't say top AZ in outdoor. Similarly, California would most definitely be number 1 in this game. No other state can offer everything California can. Otherwise, I agree those are the best states of outdoor recreation. AZ would be top 10 in my list (taking Alaska and NM out.) For me, thats good enough, and hardly "mediocre" being 10/50.

As I said, I do like biking and hiking, both of which AZ has a great deal to enjoy- again, depending on where you are and the time of year. From May through October, you can't do much of either comfortably if you live in Phoenix unless you drive a few hours north.

But I also like to ski, surf, kayak, and fish, and that's where AZ loses big points with me- b/c those are things you either can't do here at all, or your options for them are so limited and mediocre that it's not worth the bother

I know many people who hike and bike in the summer. You don't do any outdoor recreation until October? Ok, I can understand some people not wanting to really do much in June and July, I also find those months unbearable outside. But really, even as an older person, I hike with friends from August until May, and sometimes on nice weekends early in the morning throughout the summer. But I know plenty of people who regularly do outdoor recreation year round in the Phoenix area. If you don't want to sweat a bit, outdoor recreation isnt something for you in the first place. (110 degrees might be bad, I guess, but compared to 90 + humidity, its nothing.)

Arizona isnt just a giant waterless desert. We have skiing up north, sure its not as good as Denver, but not bad for a 1-2 hour drive. (Do you really think Big Bear is that much better?) Really, there are only a handful of locales (most in Colorado and Utah) for great skiing. I don't personally ski in Arizona (spend most of my time at Telluride and Park City), but skiing at the White Mountains satisfies many people. Theres plenty of kayaking near Flagstaff.

The biggest mistake is no fishing? Arizona has, in many people's opinion, great fishing (you really havent heard of people coming to AZ to fish for trout??) You just have to go north a bit. The only city that might be able to satisfy every activity easily is LA. Every other city, you have to pick and choose what you want and then take the time to drive somewhere to do something else. Really, a 1-2 hour drive is not that far. Take a few friends and its an adventure.

You say its as if he is telling people they CAN'T like Phoenix, because he doesn't. No. He's just trying to get people to see things his way.

"Hes trying to get people to see things his way" is doing just that. Through his posts, he is making people see Phoenix as unlikeable. I understand and respect steve's viewpoints. Phoenix is not for everyone, I think both adelmo and I understand this. However, the two things I do criticize steve's post is (whether its intentional or not), his posts DO scream "there is no way you will like Phoenix, Phoenix sucks, don't even try it, I saw it this way, you will too." There are ways to convey that you dislike a locale and still be mature about it, and mixing in stereotypes, exclusionary facts/some made up ones, and negative preconceived notions of Phoenix doesn't bolster any of your statements.

The problem with this Arizona forum is there are a grand total of maybe 6 people who post here who claim they are from Arizona (a few of them I don't believe, like aussiegrl.) None of them present Phoenix is any sort of positive light. NOne of them present any factual evidence, and further perpetuate stereotypes that are widely generalized and don't classify most of Phoenix's suburbs. Half of the posts on this forum are asking "where is a good place to live/what can I do in Phoenix" and instead of responding to the OP, these posters just spam the thread yelling about how Phoenix sucks. Is this helpful in any way? No. Just creates an immature/childish atmosphere.

[adelmo]

Originally Posted by CodyW

I agree with Steve22's list of places. I want to make it to all of them before I'm dead sure though.

And Adelmo, theres nothing wrong with trying to get people to see things your way. You say its as if he is telling people they CAN'T like Phoenix, because he doesn't. No. He's just trying to get people to see things his way. And really, you're doing the same thing. You're basically telling Steve that he CAN'T say anything bad about Phoenix because YOU said so.

Steve, don't kill me for trying to defend you. =P

Cody,
If you read my quotes you'll see I dont have a problem with steve22 not liking Phoenix, I must have said it a dozen times. My problem is that he wants no one to like Phoenix because he doesn't. Read a post of AZrider or speedyaz and they'll say something nice about Phoenix and steve22 will post his view saying you guys cant be serious about liking Phoenix, your not allowed. At least it seems that way to me. I'm trying not to get too personal. I just got banned like on Survivor.

[Lehi]

Originally Posted by adelmo

I just got banned like on Survivor.

I'm not a Moderator so I can't say for sure but I suspect you were banned because of some of the nonsensical "tongue in cheek" posts you made, not because of your opinions.

[adelmo]

Originally Posted by Lehi

I'm not a Moderator so I can't say for sure but I suspect you were banned because of some of the nonsensical "tongue in cheek" posts you made, not because of your opinions.

lehi, I think you're right. I can get a bit tongue and cheeky but I always make sense to myself.

[steve22]

Originally Posted by Steel87

Don't know why you stuck some Canadian provinces in this but, for much of this list I agree. Arizona isn't the top of best outdoor recreation, but its FAR from the worst. Two things I disagree with, Alaska and New Mexico, I wouldn't say top AZ in outdoor. Similarly, California would most definitely be number 1 in this game. No other state can offer everything California can. Otherwise, I agree those are the best states of outdoor recreation. AZ would be top 10 in my list (taking Alaska and NM out.) For me, thats good enough, and hardly "mediocre" being 10/50.

Originally Posted by Steel87

I know many people who hike and bike in the summer. You don't do any outdoor recreation until October? Ok, I can understand some people not wanting to really do much in June and July, I also find those months unbearable outside. But really, even as an older person, I hike with friends from August until May, and sometimes on nice weekends early in the morning throughout the summer. But I know plenty of people who regularly do outdoor recreation year round in the Phoenix area. If you don't want to sweat a bit, outdoor recreation isnt something for you in the first place. (110 degrees might be bad, I guess, but compared to 90 + humidity, its nothing.)

Arizona isnt just a giant waterless desert. We have skiing up north, sure its not as good as Denver, but not bad for a 1-2 hour drive. (Do you really think Big Bear is that much better?) Really, there are only a handful of locales (most in Colorado and Utah) for great skiing. I don't personally ski in Arizona (spend most of my time at Telluride and Park City), but skiing at the White Mountains satisfies many people. Theres plenty of kayaking near Flagstaff.

The biggest mistake is no fishing? Arizona has, in many people's opinion, great fishing (you really havent heard of people coming to AZ to fish for trout??) You just have to go north a bit. The only city that might be able to satisfy every activity easily is LA. Every other city, you have to pick and choose what you want and then take the time to drive somewhere to do something else. Really, a 1-2 hour drive is not that far.

I agree, California is pretty impossible to beat, as far as the variety. The problem, and the reason I ranked it a bit lower, is that depending upon where you live, much of that is extremely far away & hard to get to. Sure, Mammoth is awesome, and Lake Tahoe may be the most perfect place on earth- but those places are such a hike from major population centers that they might as well be in a different state. Alaska is just awesome all-around, maybe the most diverse ecologic and topographic region on the planet, with TONS to do outside. The possibilities are literally endless. You've gotta go sometime, and you'll see what I mean. NM has Taos- that alone boosts it into my top 10- and Santa Fe, which offers some of the best mountain biking in North America in the immediate vicinity. The outdoor scenery in NM, where preserved and accessible, is jaw-dropping.

Personally, I don't enjoy hiking or biking in 100-degree heat. You might, I don't. And the temps in Phoenix routinely reach 100 degrees, or close to it, from May through October. Given the choice, I don't like to exercise strenuously outside in temps above 90, especially when it's as dry as it is here. It's not only uncomfortable but flat-out dangerous, as evidenced by the numbers of heat-stricken and dehydrated people they drag off of Squaw Peak and Camelback in the hot months who don't have the sense to know better. Personal preference on that- you're entitled to yours. As for me, if I'm going to do those things in the late spring, summer, and early fall, I'm heading up north.

Skiing- I used to live in MI, and quite honestly, Boyne Mountain- which isn't even really a mountain at all- was better than AZ Snowbowl. I've skied all over North America, heli-skied in B.C. After you've done that, what's available in AZ seems pretty sorry by comparison. If I'm taking the time off to go skiing, I'd rather pay the extra money or take the extra time to fly to Utah or drive to Telluride. All the Rocky Mountain states/provinces I put ahead of AZ have better skiing options than AZ, and not just UT and CO- Sun Valley in Idaho, Banff in Alberta, Big Sky in Montana, Mt. Hood in OR, Jackson Hole in WY... AZ falls way short there.

Fishing and kayaking- true, you can do those things here, but by comparison most of the other rocky mountain states have more plentiful and abundant river systems than AZ does. The fly-fishing in states like Idaho, Wyoming, and of course, Colorado is way superior. And nothing beats deep-sea fishing- obviously not an option here. Again, same with kayaking and/or whitewater rafting. Not that you can't do those things here, but pretty much every other Rocky Mountain state has higher mountains, more snow pack, and thus more plentiful and faster-moving river systems to do those things.

[irwin]

I would add Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine on that list as well. New England can’t beat the best of the West, but they have great general hiking…maybe better than AZ.

Certainly better than what you get around Phoenix.