Tucson versus Phoenix? Which is superior? (Catalina: crime, construction, tax)

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by Ztonyg

Weather= Tucson is approximately 5 degrees cooler than Phoenix year round and gets twice as much rain. It also seems to have a greater variance between daytime and nighttime temperatures. Also, from my time in Tucson, I never recalled Tucson getting dust storms of the intensity that Phoenix does. For all of these reasons, I believe Tucson wins this category.

The desert regions near Tucson tend to have more vegetation, and are more like scrubland. The desert regions south of Phoenix are pretty barren. I believe this is one of the reasons the Phoenix area gets more of those annoying dust storms than Tucson does. Also, because of the monsoonal flow, the Tucson area receives much more rain during the summer months than the Phoenix area does. The amount of moisture in the soil tends to hold back the dust from blowing so much.

Tucson's greater variance in day/night temperatures results from the lack of an intense urban heat island effect. The Phoenix metro area is four times the size of Tucson's, and Tucson isn't so sprawled out like the Phoenix area is. Phoenix used to have fairly cool overnight lows during the summer months when it was a smaller city & there was more agriculture ... but the concrete/asphalt jungle it has become has kept low temps on the warm to hot side during the summer. On the other hand, Phoenix actually benefits from warmer overnight lows during the winter months because it means fewer freezes, which saves vegetation from ruin.

Originally Posted by Ztonyg

Transportation= As far as public transportation, Sun Tran in Tucson is a better bus system than Valley Metro in Phoenix. It's hours are longer, it runs more frequently, and it covers a greater percentage of the metro area. However, the Valley Metro light rail in Phoenix is a more extensive system than the Sun Link streetcar, and Valley Metro rail now has access to the airport, something that Tucson doesn't have.

I haven't looked at Tucson's transit system, but I think you might be right about better coverage of buses. That is likely because Tucson is more condensed than the Phoenix area. Just one correction: Valley Metro light rail doesn't serve Sky Harbor ... that would be the SkyTrain, which is a separate operation from Valley Metro.

Originally Posted by Ztonyg

As far as road and highway transportation, Phoenix has a much more extensive freeway network that actually goes where the general population wants to go. The entirety of the Tucson freeway system is in the South and/or West quadrants of the metro area, leaving much of Tucson only accessible by surface streets (many of which have traffic signals every 1/4 to 1/2 mile).

I hate driving in Tucson for this reason. If I'm ever in southern AZ and need to go through Tucson, I try to stay on I10 and not have to exit for any reason unless I really have to. Tucson's traffic is terrible, and it's because of the lack of freeways. I don't understand why they never built a more extensive freeway system. My guess is too many NIMBYs there.

[cacto]

I'm a lifelong Phoenician who loves Tucson. I don't have any serious cons about Tucson only two minor ones;

-It does seem like access to creeks, rivers, lakes, and fishing is better in PHX.

-The hate for PHX down there gets a little over the top. No, PHX isn't exactly like LA.
Yes, there's southwestern culture here too, yes its harder to find in PHX than Tucson but its
here.

Otherwise, I think it's one of the prettiest places on Earth and always daydream about the Catalinas and hiking in Saguaro NP.

[beTucsonan]

Originally Posted by cacto

The hate for PHX down there gets a little over the top.

This is funny, sad and true. I've always guessed that it stemmed from Tucson's singular fixation on the University of Arizona and the UA-ASU rivalry, but that can't really explain it, can it? When we were discussing a move back to Arizona, I suggested Phoenix since I stood a much better chance of finding work there than Tucson and the reaction from friends and family was about the same as if I'd stabbed them all in the back ...

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by cacto

The hate for PHX down there gets a little over the top. No, PHX isn't exactly like LA.
Yes, there's southwestern culture here too, yes its harder to find in PHX than Tucson but its
here.

Otherwise, I think it's one of the prettiest places on Earth and always daydream about the Catalinas and hiking in Saguaro NP.

I have a feeling that many people who live in Tucson don't want it to grow or progress very much. They seem to be content with their medium sized city that feels very isolated, slow, and laid back. This is why they adamantly rejected a mass freeway system. They think of Phoenix as another L.A., and don't want any part of it. It seems to me that around 40 to 50 years ago, Phoenix rejected building more freeways because they didn't want to become another L.A. It turned out that rejecting freeways was a huge mistake, and we paid the price for it later on. Tucson is basically in that same boat now. Their only advantage is they are not growing as fast as Phoenix did.

One thing I like about Tucson is the scenery, especially the mountains. The Catalinas have much prettier views than much of anything around Phoenix which pass for mountains. Tucson may not have easy access to lakes, but they have better natural spots nearby that are easier to get to, such as Mount Lemmon, Saguaro National Park, Wildlife Museum, etc.

[magnum0417]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

I have a feeling that many people who live in Tucson don't want it to grow or progress very much. They seem to be content with their medium sized city that feels very isolated, slow, and laid back. This is why they adamantly rejected a mass freeway system. They think of Phoenix as another L.A., and don't want any part of it. It seems to me that around 40 to 50 years ago, Phoenix rejected building more freeways because they didn't want to become another L.A. It turned out that rejecting freeways was a huge mistake, and we paid the price for it later on. Tucson is basically in that same boat now. Their only advantage is they are not growing as fast as Phoenix did.

One thing I like about Tucson is the scenery, especially the mountains. The Catalinas have much prettier views than much of anything around Phoenix which pass for mountains. Tucson may not have easy access to lakes, but they have better natural spots nearby that are easier to get to, such as Mount Lemmon, Saguaro National Park, Wildlife Museum, etc.

I believe if Tucson salaries were as competitive as Phoenix's, many Phoenicians would consider living in Tucson instead for the reasons you stated.

If I was retired or independently wealthy, Tucson hands down. Way more culture and very much like ABQ which is a good thing for true SW charm without the corporate chains overrunning so many parts of The Valley.

[Doctacity]

Weather=Tucson (I agree, plus it can snow sometimes)
Transportation=Phoenix
Cost of living=Tucson (by very little)
Killer bee/Hornet/Wasp problems- I haven't heard of this in either city, I'll keep my eyes out though!
Other wildlife problems=Phoenix rains less and has haboobs. Tucson is better for wildlife
Entertainment/Nightlife=Phoenix (in addition to Tempe/Scottsdale)
Employment=Phoenix
Easier access to things=Phoenix
Quality of living=Phoenix

[gearedtowardssalad]

If you like art/music/alternative culture: Tucson
If you don't care about any of that: Phoenix

[borregokid]

If you really love the Sonoran Desert then Tucson wins hands down over Phoenix. Fly into Sky Harbor for instance and then head east to Tucson. Once you get to Picacho Peak you realize you are in the Sonoran Desert which is green and alive. All of Tucson is like that but in Phoenix the Sonoran Desert disappears except in the foothills and going north from Scottsdale. You can buy a house in Tucson relatively cheap and have several saguaro cactus along with mesquite trees in your yard with a lot of other cactus. You have bobcats, javalina, coyotes, etc as regular visitors. Thats everywhere in Tucson...you cant say that about Phoenix.

[magnum0417]

Originally Posted by borregokid

If you really love the Sonoran Desert then Tucson wins hands down over Phoenix. Fly into Sky Harbor for instance and then head east to Tucson. Once you get to Picacho Peak you realize you are in the Sonoran Desert which is green and alive. All of Tucson is like that but in Phoenix the Sonoran Desert disappears except in the foothills and going north from Scottsdale. You can buy a house in Tucson relatively cheap and have several saguaro cactus along with mesquite trees in your yard with a lot of other cactus. You have bobcats, javalina, coyotes, etc as regular visitors. Thats everywhere in Tucson...you cant say that about Phoenix.

No disputing the climate, ecology and geography of Tucson wins hands down.Just stepping onto the rocks at Windy Point enroute to Summerhaven just blows away any view from the 3000 ft dirt piles known as South Mt and Camelback.Tucson has the Catalina's, Santa Rita's and the Rincon's at 3 times the elevation of the aforementioned dirt piles.One very important drawback that keeps me in Phoenix, employment opportunities.

[cacto]

Originally Posted by borregokid

If you really love the Sonoran Desert then Tucson wins hands down over Phoenix. Fly into Sky Harbor for instance and then head east to Tucson. Once you get to Picacho Peak you realize you are in the Sonoran Desert which is green and alive. All of Tucson is like that but in Phoenix the Sonoran Desert disappears except in the foothills and going north from Scottsdale. You can buy a house in Tucson relatively cheap and have several saguaro cactus along with mesquite trees in your yard with a lot of other cactus. You have bobcats, javalina, coyotes, etc as regular visitors. Thats everywhere in Tucson...you cant say that about Phoenix.

This post is inaccurate and shows a lack of knowledge about PHX. I guess a person can't love the Sonoran and live in PHX? But then again, the desert "disappears" by PHX so what's the difference?

The desert around Tucson is great, but its not the measure to judge what the Sonoran's supposed to look like. Tucson is so lush because its on the edge of the Sonoran where there's higher elevation transition.

Is West AZ by the Colorado any less part of the Sonoran because it's so barren? The dunes by Yuma? The desert by Hermosillo looks way more like around Phoenix, and that's the heart of the Sonoran in the state of Sonora.

I've hiked in the Eagletail Mts. in west Maricopa county, the White Tanks on the west side, Hidden Valley on top of South Mt., Sonoran Nat'l Monument, the Superstitions, and many other spots around Phoenix and it was all true Sonoran Desert.