Nine year old shoots and kills instructor (Dolan Springs: crimes, school)

[OnTheLookout]

Originally Posted by kdog

On what planet is shooting Uzi on full-automatic considered a necessary skill for a nine year old girl?

He endangered lives and it cost him his own. Sorry, but his actions were indefensively stupid.

In my opinion the fault lies primarily with the shooting instructor, secondary with the parents of the child, and least of all with the child herself.

[Zippyman]

Originally Posted by kdog

Boy have you got the wrong guy. I have CCW permits from AZ, UT, and NV and own all manners of guns. I taught my girls how to shoot. I think I'm perfectly qualified to say that encouraging a 9 y/o kid to fire a machine gun at a rental range is stupid beyond belief. So get off your high horse.

Let me phrase this another way - for many years, one of the most dangerous occupations in the US has actually been farming. Every year, thousands of *farmers* fall off their own tractors, get sucked into P.T.O's, fall into silos, etc. and die at work. Nurses stick themselves with dirty needles, and electricians touch "hot" wires & perish. Is there a 4 page thread here for those accidents? Do we devote half a day of tv coverage to it? Would the posters here decry those accident victims as "stupid"?

The accounts I've read were pretty sparse on information, but it appears this instructor was a veteran who had served our country in both Iraq and Afganistan. He was at *work* in an outdoor range in the desert in the summertime, and I doubt he was making six-figures doing it. One could either assume he had a passion for the job, or he was strapped for cash & barely getting by. He made a mistake, and paid for that mistake with his own life. If he was driving to work, and turned into traffic to get a coffee, that might be "stupid" too, but I doubt everyone here would be piling on and assigning "blame" for it.

Somehow, because there was an "uzi" involved, people from across the country (and even from other countries), seem to feel it's somehow "ok" to pee on his grave. He won't be reading your [snip] comments, laced with hindsight - but it's certainly possible his family or friends might - now or 15 years into the future - with the way that everything on the internet persists. enjoy the feeding frenzy, sorry I intruded.

[pythonis]

Isnt it better to teach kids to get along with everyone and not need guns? Since when do we need to teach our kids how to kill "just in case"? Call me a pacifist but "Thou shalt not kill" actually means something to me.

[Kimballette]

Originally Posted by pythonis

Isnt it better to teach kids to get along with everyone and not need guns? Since when do we need to teach our kids how to kill "just in case"? Call me a pacifist but "Thou shalt not kill" actually means something to me.

Why is it either/or? A gun is nothing more than a tool. It's neither good nor bad. Gun safety and education is appropriate for all ages. An Uzi is not. Not sure what the range, instructor, and parents were thinking.

The instructor had a terrible lapse of judgement and paid with his life. My heart goes out to the child who has to cope with the aftermath.

[kdog]

Originally Posted by Zippyman

Let me phrase this another way - for many years, one of the most dangerous occupations in the US has actually been farming. Every year, thousands of *farmers* fall off their own tractors, get sucked into P.T.O's, fall into silos, etc. and die at work. Nurses stick themselves with dirty needles, and electricians touch "hot" wires & perish. Is there a 4 page thread here for those accidents? Do we devote half a day of tv coverage to it? Would the posters here decry those accident victims as "stupid"?

The accounts I've read were pretty sparse on information, but it appears this instructor was a veteran who had served our country in both Iraq and Afganistan. He was at *work* in an outdoor range in the desert in the summertime, and I doubt he was making six-figures doing it. One could either assume he had a passion for the job, or he was strapped for cash & barely getting by. He made a mistake, and paid for that mistake with his own life. If he was driving to work, and turned into traffic to get a coffee, that might be "stupid" too, but I doubt everyone here would be piling on and assigning "blame" for it.

Somehow, because there was an "uzi" involved, people from across the country (and even from other countries), seem to feel it's somehow "ok" to pee on his grave. He won't be reading your [snip] comments, laced with hindsight - but it's certainly possible his family or friends might - now or 15 years into the future - with the way that everything on the internet persists. enjoy the feeding frenzy, sorry I intruded.

Gee whiz, self-righteous much? Not really sure what your problem is since you agree that he made a stupid mistake. If you're not happy with the thread, then don't follow it.

BTW, I didn't start a new thread on this. I added it as a reply to a Dolan Springs thread. This is the first time I've ever seen Dolan Springs make the news, so I thought it would be interesting to mention.

Anyway, speaking as a gun enthusiast and owner I think that allowing small children to operate machine guns at rental ranges is a very bad idea. You can agree or disagree, but please keep your insults to yourself.

[pythonis]

Originally Posted by Kimballette

Why is it either/or? A gun is nothing more than a tool. It's neither good nor bad. Gun safety and education is appropriate for all ages. An Uzi is not. Not sure what the range, instructor, and parents were thinking.

The instructor had a terrible lapse of judgement and paid with his life. My heart goes out to the child who has to cope with the aftermath.

Its either/or because im an either/or person. Rid the world of all the stupid guns if you ask me.

And 9 year olds, hell even 15 year olds have no business using guns. Guns are adult objects and minors have no business touching them.

[AZgarden]

Imagine the story this child will have to tell, when her unknowing friends ask her "So what did you do on your summer vacation?"

Years of therapy probably coming....

[observer53]

Originally Posted by kdog

Gee whiz, self-righteous much? Not really sure what your problem is since you agree that he made a stupid mistake. If you're not happy with the thread, then don't follow it.

BTW, I didn't start a new thread on this. I added it as a reply to a Dolan Springs thread. This is the first time I've ever seen Dolan Springs make the news, so I thought it would be interesting to mention.

Anyway, speaking as a gun enthusiast and owner I think that allowing small children to operate machine guns at rental ranges is a very bad idea. You can agree or disagree, but please keep your insults to yourself.

The above is correct. The posts in the Dolan Springs thread (which was on a completely different subject) were moved to the existing thread on this topic, where they then end up appearing in chronological order. In this case, that changed the OP of this thread to someone other than the person who started the thread on this topic.

Let's tone down the personal aspects of the discussion, please, thanks.

[PoppySead]

Originally Posted by Zippyman

Let me phrase this another way - for many years, one of the most dangerous occupations in the US has actually been farming. Every year, thousands of *farmers* fall off their own tractors, get sucked into P.T.O's, fall into silos, etc. and die at work. Nurses stick themselves with dirty needles, and electricians touch "hot" wires & perish. Is there a 4 page thread here for those accidents? Do we devote half a day of tv coverage to it? Would the posters here decry those accident victims as "stupid"?

The accounts I've read were pretty sparse on information, but it appears this instructor was a veteran who had served our country in both Iraq and Afganistan. He was at *work* in an outdoor range in the desert in the summertime, and I doubt he was making six-figures doing it. One could either assume he had a passion for the job, or he was strapped for cash & barely getting by. He made a mistake, and paid for that mistake with his own life. If he was driving to work, and turned into traffic to get a coffee, that might be "stupid" too, but I doubt everyone here would be piling on and assigning "blame" for it.

Somehow, because there was an "uzi" involved, people from across the country (and even from other countries), seem to feel it's somehow "ok" to pee on his grave. He won't be reading your "witty & insightful" comments, laced with hindsight - but it's certainly possible his family or friends might - now or 15 years into the future - with the way that everything on the internet persists. enjoy the feeding frenzy, sorry I intruded.

I agree, kids and adults get injured or killed at amusement parks, backyard pools, go kart arenas, the Grand Canyon, boating, etc, etc, every year. The only difference in this is it was a gun park. Life is full of accidents. This thread is running in current events, and people are all over the parents in a negative way, and the employee. The fact is, nothing had happened there before, kids 8 and up are allowed. It was a freak accident and not the only one that's ever happened at an amusement park or any other recreational experience families attend, including fireworks shows and car races.

It's just an unfortunate accident, I feel for all involved.

[AZDesertBrat]

Originally Posted by Burning Madolf

I don't think they've been id'd yet, but rumored to be from NJ.

"Mohave County Sheriff's Office spokeswoman Trish Carter told the Las Vegas Review-Journal the family was vacationing from New Jersey, but there was no mention of their home town"

Saw that quote here:

N.J. girl in Arizona Uzi accident not 9-year-old competitive shooter from Franklin Township, father says | NJ.com

Ahhhh...well, I wish they'd get their geography right!

Might have been better if that girl WAS a "competitive shooter". Maybe she would have had the good sense to see that 'something' could go wrong!