6 Years of Water Left (buying, price, agriculture)

[BIG CATS]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Grass lawns and shade trees have been established in the older parts of Phoenix for well over 100 years. If they were truly a waste of water, they would have been outlawed or heavily discouraged back then. Grass & trees add aesthetic value to neighborhoods as long as they're kept up nicely. Thankfully, we still have areas like Arcadia, Biltmore, parts of Scottsdale, Tempe, and north central Phoenix where established greenbelts are a way of life. You can have your hot gravel yards that contribute to the heat island effect just as much as asphalt & concrete. Oh, and enjoy your pool while griping about water wasters. Maybe you should look in the mirror as far as that goes.

There was plenty of water to support a tiny population. Now that PHX has grown exponentially, there just isnt enough water, especially as the drought worsens. Soon we will end up like CA... water rationing, water bans, people painting their dead lawns, gov't paying people to remove their grass, etc. Go ahead, let it get that bad, see what happens.

There's no need for big grass lawns in PHX. Its a desert. If you want grass and lush everything, go move to Maine. We need our water here, and watching millions of sprinklers going off everynight, wasting millions of gallons of water, is disgusting.

And FYI, we do have a pool, but we live in a condo, so its not ours.

[BIG CATS]

Originally Posted by southwest88

I'm sure there are plants that take much less water to maintain that could be planted in deserts. Likely they are already there, in the wild. They're likely succulents, & so not as lushly green as plants native to the US Midwest would be, for instance.

In the Midwest, I still planted succulents outside, even to conserve water there. There's lots of water in the Midwest, but not as much as you think. If it didnt rain for a few weeks, they would already be putting out water bans on sprinklers, etc. We planted native cacti (yes, there are cacti in the Midwest), yucca, etc, plants that we never ever had to water.

[southwest88]

Originally Posted by BIG CATS

In the Midwest, I still planted succulents outside, even to conserve water there. There's lots of water in the Midwest, but not as much as you think. If it didnt rain for a few weeks, they would already be putting out water bans on sprinklers, etc. We planted native cacti (yes, there are cacti in the Midwest), yucca, etc, plants that we never ever had to water.

Yah, I lived in northern IN for a coupla decades - Lake Michigan wasn't that far off. TMK, there was never an extended drought nor sprinkler ban, etc. there, @ least to where I noticed. Tornadoes, that was a totally different thing - government would have been glad to have somehow controlled those. & yes, the Great Lakes states (& Canadian provinces bordering?) formed a compact a while back ('60s? '70s?) to control diversions of fresh water from the Great Lakes. So they've been thinking ahead to that extent.


Cacti in the Midwest - yes, the railroad lines running from Mexico, the US SW & up to IL are blooming up nopales - an edible succulent, & a favorite of Mexicanos (I assume) who were traveling to Chicago, E. Chicago, Gary, etc. to work in or near steel mills, coke plants, etc. I figure the eyes or seeds or maybe chunks (not sure how nopal propagates) was thrown away, or dropped near the tracks. I've heard of veritable forests of nopales, growing wild, on no water but what falls from the sky.

[kell490]

How can oil companies get a pipeline installed like Keystone Pipeline which would have been 2700 miles long but they can't get a water pipe down from Washington State.

[lvmensch]

Originally Posted by kell490

How can oil companies get a pipeline installed like Keystone Pipeline which would have been 2700 miles long but they can't get a water pipe down from Washington State.

Keystone would carry abvout 1.1% of what flows to the down river states in the Colorado System. So for about 100 Billion dollars you could increase the flow in the Colorado 10%.

Buy the same flow from the CA growers for less than a billion.

[southwest88]

Originally Posted by kell490

How can oil companies get a pipeline installed like Keystone Pipeline which would have been 2700 miles long but they can't get a water pipe down from Washington State.

Because oil has a cost that all the business models & government planning recognize & budget for. Potable water also has a cost, but the old-model thinking in agriculture & business was that water was an external, just something you drilled for & pumped to wherever you needed it, & the price was subsidized anyway (either the waterworks cut you a deal as a mega user - for industrial processes, or the electricity or gasoline or diesel for pumps was subsidized by various levels of government - to stimulate the economy, or as a cost of doing business. This was especially true of post-WWII up into the 1970s in the rush to develop/build/sell suburbia, & continues still, TMK.)


Energy is a much easier sell than mere water, even though crops, animals, people, cities die if there's not enough drinkable water.

[Danno3314]

I've lived in north Phoenix in a 2 story condo for 27 years. I've had as many as 4 adults and a new born living in the condo at one time. My water bill has always been $13-14/mo. Including all the taxes and sewer. The actual water usage is $1-3/mo. That's reality not what "could" happen.

[jbgusa]

Originally Posted by BIG CATS

There was plenty of water to support a tiny population. Now that PHX has grown exponentially, there just isnt enough water, especially as the drought worsens. Soon we will end up like CA... water rationing, water bans, people painting their dead lawns, gov't paying people to remove their grass, etc. Go ahead, let it get that bad, see what happens.

There's no need for big grass lawns in PHX. Its a desert. If you want grass and lush everything, go move to Maine. We need our water here, and watching millions of sprinklers going off everynight, wasting millions of gallons of water, is disgusting.

And FYI, we do have a pool, but we live in a condo, so its not ours.

The Seth Siegel book, Let There Be Water should be required reading for all water alarmists. Drop irrigation, recycling of sewage and where geographically appropriate desalination should be answers to this problem.

[GeneR]

Originally Posted by lvmensch

Keystone would carry abvout 1.1% of what flows to the down river states in the Colorado System. So for about 100 Billion dollars you could increase the flow in the Colorado 10%.

Buy the same flow from the CA growers for less than a billion.

Most water use in California is for environmental purposes. Here’s the breakdown: 50% for environmental purposes, 40% for agriculture and 10% urban use.

The question arises: if you were to buy flow from smelt would it be less expensive than taking it from farms and ranches?

[xPlorer48]

Originally Posted by kell490

How can oil companies get a pipeline installed like Keystone Pipeline which would have been 2700 miles long but they can't get a water pipe down from Washington State.

AFAIK, Canada, Washington, and Oregon have treaties that would prevent this. Also, our native tribes have treaties. Salmon, hydropower, irrigation and navigable water rights would trump any possibility of a pipeline.