Prop 205 to Legalize Recreational Marijuana in Arizona (NOV 2016) (cost, law)

[AZDesertBrat]

Originally Posted by jimj

But how much are the schools REALLY getting? From what I've been able to find out so far it hasn't been much of anything, kind of like the lottery SCAM we were all fed way back when.

I was wondering if anyone would bring this up. I remember one of the biggest arguments for the lottery was that money would go to the schools and education. I've not heard anything about it since. I was thinking that, if this passes, they should use the money they get for health insurance for the people of AZ. If enough people buy into it I bet we could cover everybody and get health insurance costs down.


Just a thought...

[jimj]

Originally Posted by JGMotorsport64

Should we criminalize the lottery?

No, but we should actually LEARN from prior mistakes/lies. All I ask is for BOTH sides to be honest. Schools and kids will likely never see much if any $$$$, it will all be absorbed by "administration fees" just like the Lottery.

Let's take the commercial with that poor veteran with PTSD claiming that because pot is illegal in AZ that his VA doctor can't recommend it so he can't get it. That commercial is a LIE on so many levels. While it's true that his VA (government) doctor can't recommend pot, it's not because it's illegal due to AZ law. It's because it's illegal via FEDERAL LAW which prop 205 will not change.

Secondly, there's NOTHING stopping him from getting a Medical MJ card and buying the stuff at any AZ dispensary.

Third, let's admit that it's nothing but a money maker for the state of AZ who can't manage their budget and need a new income (TAX) stream which is what pot will become. THAT is the ONLY reason the state is for it.

Fourth, it WILL NOT stop black market pot or the cartels. In CO drug dealers are still doing well as people don't want to pay the sky high costs due to taxes.

At LEAST be somewhat honest, that's all I ask...

[jimj]

Originally Posted by More Rock

Anything that might limit or convert drunks into stoners I am behind. Because drunks behind the wheel kill people.

Daily.

SO DO STONERS...

[jimj]

Originally Posted by WestGuest

How far have you looked? Its been estimated that Cal will bring in $22 Billion and Colorado's first quarter of 2016 showed an increase to over $200 million. IF that money replaces what we pay -its a good deal.

Estimated is NOT actual fact, it's a GUESS. It was ESTIMATED that Obamacare would lower costs/raise coverage as well now wasn't it?

When will people understand, the government NEVER replaces taxes, they ADD TO THEM...
Have you ever heard anyone in government say "we'll take the pot money and remove school taxes or any other tax?" No, because that's NOT the way it works. It's ALWAYS in addition to never instead of...

[JGMotorsport64]

Originally Posted by jimj

No, but we should actually LEARN from prior mistakes/lies. All I ask is for BOTH sides to be honest. Schools and kids will likely never see much if any $$$$, it will all be absorbed by "administration fees" just like the Lottery.

Yes let's be honest about the lottery because there is a lot of confusion about how the lottery works and then how it's applied to other legalization efforts.

The lottery is not specifically assigned to schools, other than a few higher education debts, therefore approximately 50% of all lottery proceedings end up in the State general account. Education accounts for approximately 1/2 of the State's budget, of which is pulled out of the State's general account. So, while that 100million that enters into the general account is not specifically designated for education, it'd be hard to imagine a scenario where the legislature is separating that money from the rest as non contributing to education.

It's like your paycheck going into your checking account, you buy things with your checking account not the pay check.

Let's take the commercial with that poor veteran with PTSD claiming that because pot is illegal in AZ that his VA doctor can't recommend it so he can't get it. That commercial is a LIE on so many levels. While it's true that his VA (government) doctor can't recommend pot, it's not because it's illegal due to AZ law. It's because it's illegal via FEDERAL LAW which prop 205 will not change.

Secondly, there's NOTHING stopping him from getting a Medical MJ card and buying the stuff at any AZ dispensary.

The veteran in the commercial cannot get an Arizona Medical Marijuana Card prescription from a federal agency, because as you stated, it's not federally legal.

Third, let's admit that it's nothing but a money maker for the state of AZ who can't manage their budget and need a new income (TAX) stream which is what pot will become. THAT is the ONLY reason the state is for it.

Next, the state isn't ONLY in favor of legalization for tax benefits, in fact the State is in outright opposition to legalization. This is a VOTER initiative that the State tried to stop through a Constitutional Amendment.

Fourth, it WILL NOT stop black market pot or the cartels. In CO drug dealers are still doing well as people don't want to pay the sky high costs due to taxes.

At LEAST be somewhat honest, that's all I ask...

It won't stop, that's correct. It will reduce. People don't want to buy questionable pot from their local pill dealer when they can go to a store and buy varieties of regulated strains.

[jimj]

Originally Posted by JGMotorsport64

Yes let's be honest about the lottery because there is a lot of confusion about how the lottery works and then how it's applied to other legalization efforts.

The lottery is not specifically assigned to schools, other than a few higher education debts, therefore approximately 50% of all lottery proceedings end up in the State general account. Education accounts for approximately 1/2 of the State's budget, of which is pulled out of the State's general account. So, while that 100million that enters into the general account is not specifically designated for education, it'd be hard to imagine a scenario where the legislature is separating that money from the rest as non contributing to education.

It's like your paycheck going into your checking account, you buy things with your checking account not the pay check.

Next, the state isn't ONLY in favor of legalization for tax benefits, in fact the State is in outright opposition to legalization.

Then doesn't that make the "claim" that things are for "the children" or "schools" just to get a law passed disingenuous to say the least? As for the MMJ card, so what? He can get one just like every other person. We aren't deciding FEDERAL laws in this instance. As for "questionable pot" are you for real? You're buying this B.S. that's NEVER stopped anyone?

Let me be clear, I'm not against Medical MJ, I fully agree that it has medical benefits that we've yet to fully understand. I don't think we need another "legal" OTC narcotic. I do believe it should be decriminalized, though NOT sold on every corner like booze. Just look at all the problems THAT has caused.

[JGMotorsport64]

Originally Posted by jimj

Then doesn't that make the "claim" that things are for "the children" or "schools" just to get a law passed disingenuous to say the least?

No, because unlike your lottery example, Prop 205 as a statute specifically designates a percentage of proceeds directly to the Department of Education and Department of Health Services for the purpose of public education.

The lottery designated it to the general fund.

As for "questionable pot" are you for real? You're buying this B.S. that's NEVER stopped anyone?

Are you not? Why buy unregulated pot with pesticides and questionable additives when you can buy a regulated product at a store? You don't see me buying blackmarket cigarrettes and moonshine?

[jimj]

Originally Posted by JGMotorsport64

No, because unlike your lottery example, Prop 205 as a statute specifically designates a percentage of proceeds directly to the Department of Education and Department of Health Services for the purpose of public education.

The lottery designated it to the general fund.


Are you not? Why buy unregulated pot with pesticides and questionable additives when you can buy a regulated product at a store? You don't see me buying blackmarket cigarrettes and moonshine?

IF there are any $$$$$$$ left AFTER they figure in costs like policing/administration. Uh huh, okay..... I believe in the tooth fairy too.

Untaxed pot bad, TAXED pot good. See the conflict of interest in this argument? Again, what's wrong with sticking with the Medical MJ scenario where the product is regulated for medical uses?

[JGMotorsport64]

Originally Posted by jimj

IF there are any $$$$$$$ left AFTER they figure in costs like policing/administration. Uh huh, okay..... I believe in the tooth fairy too.

Untaxed pot bad, TAXED pot good. See the conflict of interest in this argument? Again, what's wrong with sticking with the Medical MJ scenario where the product is regulated for medical uses?

There is no difference between medical and standard marijuana.

Untaxed pot bad because it's an unregulated and sometimes risky purchase. Let's say I want to buy a 6 pack of Kiltlifter but my buddies cousin got this killer Lift'ErKilt from this guy for 15% less. Am I more inclined to purchase the former or latter?

I want to parse out your commercial a little bit. He can't get prescribed it under the Arizona Medical Marijuana Act because as a federal agency they aren't in its jurisdiction. In the commercial he can purchase marijuana after legalization without the prescription. It's simple.

As for your insistence that even through the money is earmarked it won't go to schools, you could be right, you could also be incredibly wrong. For me, schools are incidental, I see no purpose in using punitive measures, at great costs to taxpayers, as a means of preventing marijuana use. For one it's a plant, and two it clearly doesn't work.

[jimj]

Originally Posted by JGMotorsport64

There is no difference between medical and standard marijuana.

Untaxed pot bad because it's an unregulated and sometimes risky purchase. Let's say I want to buy a 6 pack of Kiltlifter but my buddies cousin got this killer Lift'ErKilt from this guy for 15% less. Am I more inclined to purchase the former or latter?

I want to parse out your commercial a little bit. He can't get prescribed it under the Arizona Medical Marijuana Act because as a federal agency they aren't in its jurisdiction. In the commercial he can purchase marijuana after legalization without the prescription. It's simple.

As for your insistence that even through the money is earmarked it won't go to schools, you could be right, you could also be incredibly wrong. For me, schools are incidental, I see no purpose in using punitive measures, at great costs to taxpayers, as a means of preventing marijuana use. For one it's a plant, and two it clearly doesn't work.

Why does it matter to HIM if he can get it prescribed or not? If this law is passed he STILL cannot get it prescribed from his federal doctor. If the law does not pass he can still get it via MMJ card. So, either way he can get it, just not from any federal source.
This means that whether the law is passed or not is a MOOT POINT in his case, aka the "lie".

Buying roadside food is risky as are many behaviors done on a daily basis. So what? Life is a crap shoot, you make your choices and take your chances. If you're worried about where you buy your food or dope then find a better source, that's easier and cheaper than getting the government involved.

Ciggs are legal AND taxed to death AND full of chemicals that can KILL YOU so how well does that government system really work? It works well for the supplier and the government but not so well for the consumer, just like the legal pot industry is going to do because there's BIG MONEY involved.