Future Hyperloop trasportation from Flagstaff to Tucson? (Phoenix, Prescott: construction, subsidized)

[Prickly Pear]

Originally Posted by cjseliga

Did you know that pretty much ALL public transportation is a money loser and needs public subsidies to stay afloat? Even the NYC Subway system loses money every year and that is located in the densest metro area in the US. Nobody creates a public transportation system to make a profit, nobody, best case scenario you might break even or you lose only a few million dollars each year.

XpressWest was a spoke and wheel design, I guess my wording was wrong. There would be three different routes all radiating out from Las Vegas. The first spoke would have been Vegas to LA, the next Vegas to Phoenix and the third and final spoke would have been Vegas to Salt Lake City, then eventually Salt Lake City to Denver. That would have been interesting to see the SLC to DEN segment, with a bullet train going through the Rockies, I assume lots of tunnels!

Airlines are barely profitable. Have you heard this joke? "You want to become a millionaire? It's easy! Be a billionaire, and then open an airline".

It's partially because human beings are too spread out and we have varying schedules and preferences (for an example when I can I do red eye flights versus day flights), making it difficult to collect enough people on whatever it is, an airplane train or bus even, to make it profitable. Hell even carpooling which is subsidized by HOV lanes and even some companies are rarely used.

Now public transportation isn't that cheap, but when you compare the individual cost of cars (gas, loans maybe, maintenance) plus the public cost needed for cars (interchanges, freeways, surface roads, their maintenance and expansion) private transportation is much more expensive. Public transportation's costs are just as open to the public because it isn't being transferred to the individual.

We should start changing this mentality. In many places in the world public transportation IS profitable. Or at least breaks even. For example nearly every other first world country.

[teddyearp]

I'm just going to say that there is no such thing as a public transportation being profitable.

[cjseliga]

Originally Posted by teddyearp

I'm just going to say that there is no such thing as a public transportation being profitable.

It's one of those sad but true realities. Many probably think, how can buses (probably the cheapest to construct and run as compared to heavy/line rail) not make a profit, but they would probably have to charge $20+ for a one way fare, on most routes, for them to make money.

I found this interesting blog/website of someone who really likes statistics and numbers that complied every public transportation agency in the US to see how many, if any, were profitable, the numbers are from 2013, so obviously they are different now and you can go state by state to see how your state does:

Do city buses in the US make a profit?

[Prickly Pear]

Originally Posted by teddyearp

I'm just going to say that there is no such thing as a public transportation being profitable.

Public transportation creates an economic benefit that isn't direct. Creating light rail stations and heavy rail commuter stations raise land value and encourage higher density, which raises the income from property taxes. It also encourages more offices to move there, as it provides an easier time for commuters to get to the office.

It would be interesting to compare property taxes and GDP of a small area around a recently added light rail or commuter station, and compare the before and after, to see if it actually helps to weigh out the cost.

But, public transportation does not make enough money from fares alone, which is why it is handled by the government and not private companies.

[teddyearp]

So basically we all have to pay for it, whether we like it or use it or not. Raises property values? Most folks do not want these stations built near their homes for the exact opposite reason I thought.

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by teddyearp

So basically we all have to pay for it, whether we like it or use it or not. Raises property values? Most folks do not want these stations built near their homes for the exact opposite reason I thought.

I love living right off a light rail station, I use it to commute to work, as well as to go out for fun on the weekend

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by teddyearp

So basically we all have to pay for it, whether we like it or use it or not. Raises property values? Most folks do not want these stations built near their homes for the exact opposite reason I thought.

And if driving weren't being subsidized (mainly with "free" roads), I guarantee that mass transit would then look much better. The problem is that driving has been made too cheap

[Prickly Pear]

Originally Posted by teddyearp

So basically we all have to pay for it, whether we like it or use it or not. Raises property values? Most folks do not want these stations built near their homes for the exact opposite reason I thought.

Last I checked people view their home as investments that have increasing value. Wouldn’t it be a good thing if your home increased in value on the market?

[Burning Madolf]

Originally Posted by teddyearp

I'm just going to say that there is no such thing as a public transportation being profitable.

Profit? Break even is unobtainable.

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by Burning Madolf

Profit? Break even is unobtainable.

If we tolled all roads, making drivers pay the true cost, rather than subsidizing it like we do now, I guarantee rail would be more popular