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How come Israel does not decorate anything for Christmas at all, when there are 2% Christians living there, yet in the U.S. you see menorahs everywhere when we have 2% Jews living here? That's not fair.
It's where Jesus Christ was born.
I don't know what a menorah is, are you sure we see them everywhere? If I had, I'd probably had asked about it while growing up.
I also wouldn't be surprised that christians in Israel do celebrate Christmas. It doesn't mean the nation state of Israel be required to do so as well.
On that note, I'm unaware of any major Jewish holidays that all of America celebrates.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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I think Jews SEEM more represented in the US then they actually are, because there are a lot of them in the Tri-State area and Los Angeles, and many are involved in the media, entertainment, finance industry etc so they get a lot of exposure. Jews are over-represented in many fields; take actors for instance. Jewish people are pretty few and far between outside the Northeast, LA and a few other cities.
I remember on General US someone asked something like "why do we all get off the Jewish holidays when they're only like 2% of the population" and that many of us were like "what do you mean 'we' kimosavee?"
You occasionally get posters from places like New York or LA who almost seem to assume that their part of the US is typical. I'm not sure if that's the issue here though. For a variety of reasons Americans, I think, do tend to be somewhat aware of Jewish culture regardless of their personal experience. In my life I've met maybe two or three Jews, none of them religiously observant so far as I could tell, but if you watch television with any frequency you get some awareness of the Jewish holidays or symbols.
I'm trying to think how to broach why that is, when religious minorities of similar size (like Mormons) are maybe more mysterious to people, without sounding biased in my explanation. I don't think I am being biased in what I'm going to say, but I fear it's going to sound like an Antisemitic cliche anyway. Anyway hemming over. Basically Jewish people are disproportionately educated, disproportionately located in America's "media centers", and just disproportionately involved in the entertainment industry. I want to be clear that I'm not saying "Jews run Hollywood" or "Jews run Broadway" but I think it's probably fair to say there's more Jewish actors and directors than there are say Lutherans in those jobs despite their being more Lutherans in America. So in the US Jewish people's "media attention" is comparatively large. And so yeah I know what a menorah is even if I've never seen a synagogue except maybe from a distance when visiting the city.
I might be being squeamish, but I do still worry how that sounds or makes me feel or whatever. Since I have so little real experience with Jewish people I really worry I'm going to sound offensive even if I try not to. Or that worrying about that sounds offensive or whatever.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,037,872 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R.
I remember on General US someone asked something like "why do we all get off the Jewish holidays when they're only like 2% of the population" and that many of us were like "what do you mean 'we' kimosavee?"
You occasionally get posters from places like New York or LA who almost seem to assume that their part of the US is typical. I'm not sure if that's the issue here though. For a variety of reasons Americans, I think, do tend to be somewhat aware of Jewish culture regardless of their personal experience. In my life I've met maybe two or three Jews, none of them religiously observant so far as I could tell, but if you watch television with any frequency you get some awareness of the Jewish holidays or symbols.
I'm trying to think how to broach why that is, when religious minorities of similar size (like Mormons) are maybe more mysterious to people, without sounding biased in my explanation. I don't think I am being biased in what I'm going to say, but I fear it's going to sound like an Antisemitic cliche anyway. Anyway hemming over. Basically Jewish people are disproportionately educated, disproportionately located in America's "media centers", and just disproportionately involved in the entertainment industry. I want to be clear that I'm not saying "Jews run Hollywood" or "Jews run Broadway" but I think it's probably fair to say there's more Jewish actors and directors than there are say Lutherans in those jobs despite their being more Lutherans in America. So in the US Jewish people's "media attention" is comparatively large. And so yeah I know what a menorah is even if I've never seen a synagogue except maybe from a distance when visiting the city.
I might be being squeamish, but I do still worry how that sounds or makes me feel or whatever. Since I have so little real experience with Jewish people I really worry I'm going to sound offensive even if I try not to. Or that worrying about that sounds offensive or whatever.
I don't think you're being offensive, just stating a fact, although I'm not Jewish. I personally don't care even if Jews do run Hollywood or Broadway (which is a stereotype), they've contributed so much.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,037,872 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R.
I remember on General US someone asked something like "why do we all get off the Jewish holidays when they're only like 2% of the population" and that many of us were like "what do you mean 'we' kimosavee?"
You occasionally get posters from places like New York or LA who almost seem to assume that their part of the US is typical. I'm not sure if that's the issue here though. For a variety of reasons Americans, I think, do tend to be somewhat aware of Jewish culture regardless of their personal experience. In my life I've met maybe two or three Jews, none of them religiously observant so far as I could tell, but if you watch television with any frequency you get some awareness of the Jewish holidays or symbols.
I'm trying to think how to broach why that is, when religious minorities of similar size (like Mormons) are maybe more mysterious to people, without sounding biased in my explanation. I don't think I am being biased in what I'm going to say, but I fear it's going to sound like an Antisemitic cliche anyway. Anyway hemming over. Basically Jewish people are disproportionately educated, disproportionately located in America's "media centers", and just disproportionately involved in the entertainment industry. I want to be clear that I'm not saying "Jews run Hollywood" or "Jews run Broadway" but I think it's probably fair to say there's more Jewish actors and directors than there are say Lutherans in those jobs despite their being more Lutherans in America. So in the US Jewish people's "media attention" is comparatively large. And so yeah I know what a menorah is even if I've never seen a synagogue except maybe from a distance when visiting the city.
I might be being squeamish, but I do still worry how that sounds or makes me feel or whatever. Since I have so little real experience with Jewish people I really worry I'm going to sound offensive even if I try not to. Or that worrying about that sounds offensive or whatever.
I don't think you're being offensive, just stating a fact, although I'm not Jewish. I don't really care even if 'Jews run Hollywood or Broadway' (I'm aware it's a stereotype) as they've contributed so much to American culture.
Israel is a Jewish state (not a Christian one). There isn't a complete separation between state & religion in Israel like in the USA. Also Christmas is a regular workday in Israel.
Which makes perfect sense to me.
I spent most of my life living in Manhattan (the NYC one), and most of my work life was spent in jobs where Jews were a large minority or the majority of the staff; thus, Jewish holidays, and many other Jewish things very quickly became a standard part of my everyday life.
But I can remember feeling how strange other parts of the U.S. seemed after many years in NYC because the Jewish part of my everyday life was missing....and like many gentile New Yorkers I had quickly assimilated various Yiddish words which cropped up in daily speech - and, boy!, did these draw a blank. Very funny. But it did occur to me that it must seem much, much stranger to Jews when they travelled out of areas where they were a large presence.
I think there are large areas of the U.S. where Jews and Jewish culture/religion are barely on the radar.
And I can't think of a reason in the world why Israelis should feel obliged to spend money decorating for Christmas, especially considering how hideously Jews have been treated by Christians since the very early days of the Christian religion.
I'm taking it you got this stuff from some activist website. Although I admit it's more valid than I thought as the Germanic feast of "Yule" appears to be December 25. Still why would Constantine want to celebrate a German festival? What evidence do you have he did? And you can't say "it had nothing to do with religion" than say it's pagan. Paganism was religious.
Uh, no. If you read history, you'd know that Constantine wanted his empire to tolerate all religions and worships, and he favored Christianity since he converted to it, and he wanted to be the main religion by tying it to pagan festivals so the pagans had something to relate to. Why do you assume it was from some activist site? Must be that American black and white thinking rearing its ugly head again. Ok, so, paganism was a religion in and of itself.
Christmas does have a lot to do with pagan solstice celebrations and is unlikely to be the literal birth of Christ. The first Christians to celebrate the birth of Christ look to have placed it in March or April. However the word "Christmas", and how we celebrate it, has a fair amount more to do with Christianity than many anti-Christians I've seen want to admit. Carols are Christian, I've never seen much reason to think they're pagan. I believe many of the flowers and plants associated to the holiday are associated due to Christian symbolism. The star on top of the tree is likely linked to the Star of Bethlehem. Others put angels on top, but that's also clearly a religious symbol.
You probably think I'm an atheist by the sound of your comments, you're wrong. I'm a Christian, one who understands history and knows that Christmas was never about Jesus, since Jesus was not born on December 25, He wasn't even born in December, period. The modern-day Christmas with the coniferous tree with decorations and such, started in the Eastern Roman Empire after Emperor Constantine converted to Christianity. Just like the Sabbath is not Sunday, that's another pagan ritual that was brought over to Roman Catholicism to make Christianity more accepting of pagans. The true Sabbath is on Saturday, the day the Jews have theirs.
I don't know what a menorah is, are you sure we see them everywhere? If I had, I'd probably had asked about it while growing up.
I also wouldn't be surprised that christians in Israel do celebrate Christmas. It doesn't mean the nation state of Israel be required to do so as well.
On that note, I'm unaware of any major Jewish holidays that all of America celebrates.
Christians in Israel (who happen to be mainly Arabs) do celebrate X'mas and probably have X'mas decorations in their local churches (or maybe in some small Arab villages that have Christian majority).
As for the celebration of Jewish holidays in America that has happens only in areas where there is a large Jewish population (or there was a large Jewish population in the past).
BTW, Chanukah/Hanuka (which the menorah is a symbol of) is a minor Jewish holiday and in Israel people work normally during this time.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,037,872 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevxu
Which makes perfect sense to me.
I spent most of my life living in Manhattan (the NYC one), and most of my work life was spent in jobs where Jews were a large minority or the majority of the staff; thus, Jewish holidays, and many other Jewish things very quickly became a standard part of my everyday life.
But I can remember feeling how strange other parts of the U.S. seemed after many years in NYC because the Jewish part of my everyday life was missing....and like many gentile New Yorkers I had quickly assimilated various Yiddish words which cropped up in daily speech - and, boy!, did these draw a blank. Very funny. But it did occur to me that it must seem much, much stranger to Jews when they travelled out of areas where they were a large presence.
I think there are large areas of the U.S. where Jews and Jewish culture/religion are barely on the radar.
And I can't think of a reason in the world why Israelis should feel obliged to spend money decorating for Christmas, especially considering how hideously Jews have been treated by Christians since the very early days of the Christian religion.
I'll go out on a limb here, but it seems Jews, even secular Jews, are sometimes resistant to celebrating the idea of Christmas because Christianity has so much to do with them. In western countries most people, including non-Christians and those of other religions, celebrate Christmas in some ways. This is the case in some non-Western, non-Christian nations too.
Op is just a troll in my book. Without wanting to get over-excited, it's with silly little declarations of victimhood that many really bad episodes in history have started.
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