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India has a long and illustrious history, but would you say the main thing that has united the diverse range of peoples, languages and culture is the various Hindu beliefs? Imported through the Brahmic vedas, Hinduism is one of the world's oldest religions having a history of thousands of years. Although India has been conquered by various Empires with different religions, I think Hinduism is virtually synonymous with Indian identity, pervading every area of spirituality, culture and society, i.e. the Caste system.
During the era of the British Raj, there was some unity with Sikhs, Muslims.etc, but would you say they thought of themselves as being a part of a unified Indian nation, or more as communities? Was the creation of the modern Indian state largely a modern phenomenon, in 1948? I mean technically even Burma was even part of British India, although of course culturally the Burmese are totally different from India, although there is some influence.
First, the caste system is not essential to Hinduism. It could have been done away with by now, except by politicians who keep it alive for 'vote banks', having learned from the British system of 'divide and rule'.
There was a sense of Indian-ness at different times in the past, like during the peak of the Maurya/Gupta/Mughal empires. Of course the borders were different then. Burma and Sri Lanka were never part of these empires, so had completely different identities. At the time of British conquest India was fractured due to lack of strong empires.
Most people in India (except for a few tribes here and there) would think of themselves as Indians more than Hindus or Jains or Sikhs. This is especially true because the government plays a large role in everyday life (state ownership of many industries, laws, etc.). The Indian Prime Minister is a Sikh, and the Vice-President is a Muslim. The percentage of Indians who are Hindus is only about 80% and decreasing. Identities that come after nationality would be that of different states (based on languages spoken because Indian states are mostly divided based on linguistics). Also India has no national religion/ is secular. No national holidays are allotted for religious days. However religious holidays are most definitely celebrated by states/companies, etc.
It's worth noting that the national (and continental) identities of many countries outside of Europe arose from foreign, in most cases European perspectives.
On a large scale, the peoples in Asia never saw themselves as Asians until European Exceptionalism deemed Europe worthy to be a separate continent within Eurasia. The non-European rest didn't see themselves as Asians but as Chinese, Malay, Thai, Tamil, Bengali, Persian, Arab, Turk, etc.
Similarly, Hinduism got to be considered a religion through the eyes of Europeans. Beliefs and "religions" that fit into certain schemes got to be grouped together and called Hindu. Even then in the 20th century you still found "Hindu Mohammedans".
It can be quite difficult for Occidentals to fathom the rather blurry boundaries between beliefs, religions, languages of the peoples that are now Indians.
European education and way of thinking is used to drawing pretty clear cut boundaries between religions and languages that is hardly applicable to Indians.
Even then in the 20th century you still found "Hindu Mohammedans".
For quite some time in history, "Hindu" was generally used as a term for the inhabitants of India or the Indian subcontinent (i.e. Hindustan) without any religious meaning in particular, just based on the Indus river region (Sindhu in Sanskrit, originally just meaning "river"). This was a common way it was used by the ancient Persians (who called the 'Sindhu" as "Hindu" in their language) that was carried over to Greeks, Arabs and other westerners.
So, in a sense Hindu or India literally means river, or of the river; I actually remember not too long ago, it was the answer to a question in the final round of an episode of the (American) TV quiz game show "Jeopardy!" as to what the largest country named after a river was.
The use of the term Hindu or Hinduism to mean a follower of Indian-origin religion is much more recent and is a European coinage from around the 19th century or so.
First, the caste system is not essential to Hinduism. It could have been done away with by now, except by politicians who keep it alive for 'vote banks', having learned from the British system of 'divide and rule'.
There was a sense of Indian-ness at different times in the past, like during the peak of the Maurya/Gupta/Mughal empires. Of course the borders were different then. Burma and Sri Lanka were never part of these empires, so had completely different identities. At the time of British conquest India was fractured due to lack of strong empires.
Most people in India (except for a few tribes here and there) would think of themselves as Indians more than Hindus or Jains or Sikhs. This is especially true because the government plays a large role in everyday life (state ownership of many industries, laws, etc.). The Indian Prime Minister is a Sikh, and the Vice-President is a Muslim. The percentage of Indians who are Hindus is only about 80% and decreasing. Identities that come after nationality would be that of different states (based on languages spoken because Indian states are mostly divided based on linguistics). Also India has no national religion/ is secular. No national holidays are allotted for religious days. However religious holidays are most definitely celebrated by states/companies, etc.
If I'm not mistaken from what I've read, doesn't the Indian constitution actually include Jains, Buddhists and Sikhs under the category of Hindus?
Not really, the clause in the constitution just groups these religions together for social welfare/ reform purposes (Muslims have their own set of rules). Sikhs are very distinguishable due to their dress and customs and are never mistaken for Hindus. Jains and Buddhists are a tiny minority in India and tend to mingle among other unless they are monks. They are all counted separately in the census. Demographics of India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I'd say Indian identity isn't just Hindu identity.
I know many Hindus that visit gurudhwaras (temples where Sikhs go), Hindus marrying Jains, and Catholic Indians that very much like their Hindu Indian friends in everything else except their religion and name.
To me, it's the Muslim Indians or atleast the ones that follow an extreme such as women covering the face dress, and it's not identifiable as Indian identity. That's more like Pakistani or Bangladeshi identity but those people happen to live in India.
To me, it's the Muslim Indians or atleast the ones that follow an extreme such as women covering the face dress, and it's not identifiable as Indian identity. That's more like Pakistani or Bangladeshi identity but those people happen to live in India.
That's a very divisive comment - to me they're still Indian, they just happen to be Muslim too - how can these be a Pakistani/Bangladeshi identity when most of these customs existed before those before those countries existed? BTW Most Bangladeshi women are indistinguishable from Hindu Indian women..they wear saris and a lot have a dot on their forehead.
In answer the the OP - no, a lot of my extended family are very proud Indians and they are not Hindu.
how can these be a Pakistani/Bangladeshi identity when most of these customs existed before those before those countries existed? BTW Most Bangladeshi women are indistinguishable from Hindu Indian women..they wear saris and a lot have a dot on their forehead.
In answer the the OP - no, a lot of my extended family are very proud Indians and they are not Hindu.
True. The divisions were brought by Europeans who were used to having clear cut boundaries between religions. Something that is practically impossible in India.
Quote:
Originally Posted by avg12
I know many Hindus that visit gurudhwaras (temples where Sikhs go), Hindus marrying Jains, and Catholic Indians that very much like their Hindu Indian friends in everything else except their religion and name.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neutre
It's worth noting that the national (and continental) identities of many countries outside of Europe arose from foreign, in most cases European perspectives.
On a large scale, the peoples in Asia never saw themselves as Asians until European Exceptionalism deemed Europe worthy to be a separate continent within Eurasia. The non-European rest didn't see themselves as Asians but as Chinese, Malay, Thai, Tamil, Bengali, Persian, Arab, Turk, etc.
Similarly, Hinduism got to be considered a religion through the eyes of Europeans. Beliefs and "religions" that fit into certain schemes got to be grouped together and called Hindu. Even then in the 20th century you still found "Hindu Mohammedans".
It can be quite difficult for Occidentals to fathom the rather blurry boundaries between beliefs, religions, languages of the peoples that are now Indians.
European education and way of thinking is used to drawing pretty clear cut boundaries between religions and languages that is hardly applicable to Indians.
India has people of different religions. besides hindu, people of muslim, christian, sikh, parsi, jain, budhist faiths also live in india in huge numbers.
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