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Your logic is flawed.
You do realize that most people who immigrate to Australia, Canada and the US don't speak English as their first language, right? If people can learn English, what's so hard about learning Japanese? What makes English so special?
No, it is your logic that is going haywire. You really don't see why immigrants prefer English speaking countries. It doesn't seem like you have a lot of experience with immigrants.
English is not my first language either, but New Zealand was a much better choice for me than Japan, because I learned English in school.
There is nothing special about learning English. The reason it is easier to go to an English speaking country is because we don't have to learn another language.
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Based on what evidence you claim Europe didn't benefit from immigration "at all"? Of course immigration brings new problem, but it injects new life to the country, fill the labour shortage, expand the tax base, and enlarge the market. The pros will most likely outweigh the cons. The US for example will not be so vibrant without mass immigration each year.
Yes, Europe is not benefiting at all from third world immigration. They are not recieving those qualified chinese immigrants. They are recieving unqualified immigrants from the middle east and africa. But over to your arguments.
First off there is no labour shortage, there is a job shortage in Europe.
Secondly it decreases the tax base, because the immigrants are not contributing enough.
The cons heavily outweight the pros. No one except corrupt politicans, gives a rat ass about being large and powerful. If they did, then EU would be a country. And economically and socially it is a huge mistake.
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Of course you need to bring in the right people - such as what Canada is doing. millions of Chinese will be very interested in moving to Japan, so do people in southeast Asia. Asian countries share a lot more in common when it comes to culture, and don't forget a significant part of the current "Japanese culture" is borrowed from China about 1000 years ago and got modified.
Do you anything about Asia? Chinese people generally dislike Japan, and Japanese culture. Why would you take in millions of people who already dislike you. Its hard enough to take in immigrants who like your country.
Also, productive chinese will not be too interested in moving to Japan. They get well paid in China, and they want to remain close to their family and not learn a new language. Also, they probably will have a hard time to get a decent job in Japan.
Of course you can take in millions of poor labourers. But then you will get lots of problems. Poor chinese lack manners which will infuriate japanese. Poor people in general cost the government more than they pay in taxes. They will increase crime, and they are unlikely to integrate.
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such as what Canada is doing
Japan is not Canada. There are lots of competition for high achievers. Why should a high achiever go to Japan, when he can go to Canada, United States, New Zealand, or Australia instead? If you are a high achiever it is not that hard to immigrate to at least Canada and New Zealand.
Its easy to get bad immigrants who will just hurt the country. It is not easy to get lots of quality immigrants. Especially if people in your country do not speak English.
Hence immigration can never be a solution for Japan. They will never be able to get millions of quality immigrants to move to their country. What they should do is to attract as many quality immigrants as possible, while rejecting bad immigrants. And then find another way to solve the demographic time bomb.
apparently you don't know much about the Chinese. Despite the history, a lot of young Chinese, especially those in big coastal cities, would love to move to Japan.
In cities like Shanghai, Japanese is the second most popular foreign language learned by kids after English. Other languages such as French and Spanish can't even compare.
The chinese will be willing to immigrate to Japan. Japan's advantage: it is 1-2 hour flight from east china, compared with 10-14 for North America. Two, similar culture and food. The Chinese love ramen and shushi much much more than steaks and hamburgers. Three, they look alike and you don't always look completely different from the majority and end up be eternally marginalized.
I don't see language as a big barrier. If moving to Japan is an option, there will soon be training schools and kids will learn it at a much younger age.
Last edited by botticelli; 10-31-2013 at 12:20 PM..
I don't think it is stupid to say that there are elements of Ponzi schemes built into social security and other institutions.
I never refuted that. Social security IS a ponzi scheme, and I don't like it. The western government has it because most people are stupid enough to spend too much money and not saving enough. I don't know why people in western countries behave that way, but that's what they do. Completely irrresponsible and lack any basic knowledge in personal finance.
When I was a graduate student in the US making about $1500 a month, I spent very conservatively and always had $3000 or more in the bank, while my working roommate making $60000+ rarely had $300 savings. And it is typical of American and Canadian people, which is why the government had to forced them to pay a certain percentage of income as pension, otherwise, these people upon retirement will starve to death.
In an ideal world full of non-stupid people, the government should have no business dealing with old people's retirement. Everyone should have the intelligence to save for his/her own retirement. It doesn't take an IQ of 90 to know that you can't afford that brand new car or the ipad when you make $30000 a year, but people do it nevertheless, because they think they are entitled to "nice stuff".
apparently you don't know much about the Chinese. Despite the history, a lot of young Chinese, especially those in big coastal cities, would love to move to Japan.
In cities like Shanghai, Japanese is the second most popular foreign language learned by kids after English. Other languages such as French and Spanish can't even compare.
No, again you have proven you don't know anything about China. The dream in China is not moving to Japan and become a second class citizen. The dream is to move to countries like Canada, US, UK, and Australia.
So you ask, why is Japanese more popular than French and Spanish? Thats because hardly anyone knows either French, Spanish or Japanese. In fact estimations of total amount of proper English speakers in China is about 50 million. Thats not a lot for a country with 1.35 billion people. Number of Japanese speakers as second language is probably below 1 million.
You are simply living in a delusion where the only acceptable answer is multiculturism. You should join the Swedes and you can destroy their country together. The Japanese are not interested in your destructive "solutions".
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The chinese will be willing to immigrate to Japan. Japan's advantage: it is 1-2 hour flight from east china, compared with 10-14 for North America. Two, similar culture and food. The Chinese love ramen and shushi much much more than steaks and hamburgers. Three, they look alike and you don't always look completely different from the majority and end up be eternally marginalized.
First off this just shows that you know nothing about China at least.
1. Chinese People don't choose country after food. There are far bigger concerns. And you can easily get Japanese and Chinese food in America, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.
2. The culture or food is not the same at all. Also, there is not one Chinese cusine.
3. There are places selling hamburgers everywhere. There are not too many Japanese resturants.
4. Looking alike doesn't matter. They will notice you are not from Japan, and then you wil be discriminated to even larger degree than westerners in Japan. Also, why would a chinese person move to Japan if he is so interested in being with people who look similar to him? A person like that will stay in China.
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I don't see language as a big barrier. If moving to Japan is an option, there will soon be training schools and kids will learn it at a much younger age.
Only if you totally open the borders will people start learning japanese. And then you won't get quality immigrants. And as pointed out the quality immigrants are already able to get into western countries. So why would they go to Japan? (No, shorter plane ride is an appropriate answer. There are far bigger concerns)
Generally the people who go to Japan are the ones who are unable to go to western countries either due to money or it is too hard to get a visa. There is certain potential there, but it certainly won't solve Japan's demographic problems.
Your arguments have declined in quality. Most of what I wrote was left unanswered. It seems to me that you support mass immigration to Japan due to ideology and not because it is the best option for Japan.
From what I can read, everyone on here except Tiger Beer and Camlon has no idea what they are talking about. You all are thinking like the typical white people that you are. Japan is NOT going to start importing massive amounts of immigrants. Sorry, botticelli, et. al., but the concept of multiculturalism is only limited to the various white English speaking and western European nations. Japan is not some special exception, Japan follows the world norms of extremely strong assimilation.
As for people saying that Chinese appreciate Japan because they are similar cultures? Oh my God, tell that to my Chinese immigrant stepfather and he'll kick your ass for blaspheming like that. You heard of the Seven Deadly Sins? You should put that on the list as the Eighth Deadly Sin. People who say ridiculous things like that have no idea.
As for Japan's population, look. There was a time where Japan had a lot less people than it does now, and it was quite successful. Japan is a very crowded country with no resources of its own. They also DO NOT think in the short term like Westerners do, hence why they do not rely on immigrants who are not ethnically Japanese. Botticelli, do you know any Japanese history? These are a people who pride themselves on being self-sufficient. They also were self-isolated for a very long time, and they didn't consider that a problem. Then the Europeans came, and they saw that they needed to change to survive, not to become like them. Again, that national notion of self-sufficiency.
In closing, I'd like to say to botticelli and those that think like him: STOP THINKING LIKE A WESTERNER. JAPAN IS NOT A WESTERN COUNTRY. Multiculturalism is a purely WESTERN concept. I needed to bold, underline, and capitalize all that because this seems to not sink in to a lot of people's brains. Seems like living with Chinese immigrants for years has made me learn a lot of things that a lot of you, except Tiger Beer, don't know. And no, living next to Chinese immigrants is not the same as actually living under the same roof as them. I cannot stress this enough, these people do not plan ahead for the next quarterly statement or next year's budget. They plan ahead 50-100+ years into the future. China has seen the benefit of a greatly reduced population, Japan has most likely seen the benefits of decreased population density.
Another thing, what is so logical about paving over every bit of nature in California, let's say? Where are the crops going to grow? Where are the animals going to graze? Did you forget that? Just because The US has a ton of land to spare, much of the empty land is used to feed the world
But there is one area where Japan is not easier at all, and thats taking in asylum seekers, giving amnesty to illegal immigrants, giving benefits to illegal immigrants, and giving automatic citizenship to illegal immigrant children. But how would making that easier benefit Japan? All experience from US and Europe shows that it has come at a massive cost.
and what would hat massive cost be I am curious cause we are taking cheap labor by the bushel these days and cheap means highly adaptable fo the quickest gain my take that is
From what I can read, everyone on here except Tiger Beer and Camlon has no idea what they are talking about. You all are thinking like the typical white people that you are. Japan is NOT going to start importing massive amounts of immigrants. Sorry, botticelli, et. al., but the concept of multiculturalism is only limited to the various white English speaking and western European nations. Japan is not some special exception, Japan follows the world norms of extremely strong assimilation.
wrong differing element inclusive systems are as inherent in nature as the will to say my dick is bigger than yours and unlike art life imitates life insert adjective and for the sake of cohesiveness everybody including the those who know better are playing by the rules even though they know that they are better than said rules (whether of those who implemented it or apply it)
population crisis they have a highly meritocratic society I am not dissing the x factor but meritocracy is why the species are where they are now so facilitating people for what they love to do would not be too much of a challenge especially in a place like japan where the line between pop history and history is very blurry
apparently you don't know much about the Chinese. Despite the history, a lot of young Chinese, especially those in big coastal cities, would love to move to Japan.
In cities like Shanghai, Japanese is the second most popular foreign language learned by kids after English. Other languages such as French and Spanish can't even compare.
The chinese will be willing to immigrate to Japan. Japan's advantage: it is 1-2 hour flight from east china, compared with 10-14 for North America. Two, similar culture and food. The Chinese love ramen and shushi much much more than steaks and hamburgers. Three, they look alike and you don't always look completely different from the majority and end up be eternally marginalized.
I don't see language as a big barrier. If moving to Japan is an option, there will soon be training schools and kids will learn it at a much younger age.
I am a Hong Kong citizen who lived in NZ for 19 years,I am also deciding to move to Japan
Listen to yourself. You are a Hong Kong citizen who lived in NZ. Your first choice was not Japan, it was New Zealand.
What you do later in life for excitment or love is a different story.
he chose NZ probably because it WAS an option at that time?
You can't just choose to move to Japan if you want to. Japan hardly accepts immigrants unless you marry a Japanese.
From what I can read, everyone on here except Tiger Beer and Camlon has no idea what they are talking about.
Hey!
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Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed
As for Japan's population, look. There was a time where Japan had a lot less people than it does now, and it was quite successful. Japan is a very crowded country with no resources of its own.
I believe that is true of every country in the world. Only Ireland has the same population as it had before the potato famine in mid 19th century. But at the present time Ireland continues to grow.
Hungary has returned to it's 1956 population after dropping since 1980. Unlike Ireland, they continue to shrink.
But just because you return to a population level of the past, your age distribution is very different. Right now Japan has the same population as it did in 2001. By 2050 it will have the same population as it did in 1972. But the demography of 2050 Japan will be radically different than 1972 Japan.
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