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Old 12-14-2014, 08:58 PM
 
Location: Taipei
8,864 posts, read 8,438,262 times
Reputation: 7413

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Quote:
Originally Posted by X14Freak View Post
Since America is the protector of Asians and freedom why is it that they fought wars against just about every Asian country in the Western Pacific? Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Korea, Japan, China, and the Philippines? It seems that after WWII, America replaced Imperial Japan rather than vanquishing imperialism in that region. Two former Japanese colonies (Taiwan and South Korea) are now under American hegemony and much of the current structure in Asia is reminiscent of the interwar era.
In a way, yes, America has replaced Japan as the imperial power in this region, and America does it for itself and it certainly doesn't give a rat's ass about our freedom or our democracy, but quite frankly, we benefit from American hegemony. Japan, South Korea, and us obvioisly have been doing a hell lot better than those who have never been under America's "protection"(Philippines is perhaps the only exception), call us America's minions or *******, we like it this way.

Now that China has become more powerful, it has started to try to take control over this region and as you can see, literally everybody calls America for help. Even those that have been America's enemies, such as Vietnam. Chinese hegemony might come in a distant future, but everybody here, powerless or powerful, has been trying to postpone it. Why? Because we'd rather live in an American hegemony than a Chinese one.

Those that complain about America being the world cop usually fail to see the bright side of it.
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Old 12-14-2014, 10:14 PM
 
1,392 posts, read 2,133,074 times
Reputation: 984
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
In a way, yes, America has replaced Japan as the imperial power in this region, and America does it for itself and it certainly doesn't give a rat's ass about our freedom or our democracy, but quite frankly, we benefit from American hegemony. Japan, South Korea, and us obvioisly have been doing a hell lot better than those who have never been under America's "protection"(Philippines is perhaps the only exception), call us America's minions or *******, we like it this way.

Now that China has become more powerful, it has started to try to take control over this region and as you can see, literally everybody calls America for help. Even those that have been America's enemies, such as Vietnam. Chinese hegemony might come in a distant future, but everybody here, powerless or powerful, has been trying to postpone it. Why? Because we'd rather live in an American hegemony than a Chinese one.

Those that complain about America being the world cop usually fail to see the bright side of it.
Latin America is under American hegemony and suffer from crushing poverty and horrific governance.

South Korea is slowly beginning to wean away from America and is trying to balance between China and America. We will see how long those under American hegemony will continue to stay under it. The main reason why Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan have been loyal to America is because America opened up its market and transferred technology in exchange for support. The tech transfers are over and the American market is no longer as receptive to goods from those countries. China on the other hand is a rapidly growing market and countries that have been hostile to Chinese interests (such as Japan) have had to deal with all kinds of trade sanctions and boycotts that have had a negative effect on economic growth. Japan's alliance with America is beginning to harm the country not help as the Chinese market continues to grow.

I don't see any of those countries you mentioned staying under America's hegemony in the future (in around 2-3 decades) especially if the alliances begin to harm their economies (as in the case of Japan). However, none of those countries will end up in China's hegemony since they all have to maintain good relations with the US. Nevertheless, they will be Finlandized sometime in the future. South Korea is already somewhat being Finlandized.
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Old 12-15-2014, 12:06 AM
 
9,229 posts, read 9,751,529 times
Reputation: 3316
Quote:
Originally Posted by X14Freak View Post
Latin America is under American hegemony and suffer from crushing poverty and horrific governance.

South Korea is slowly beginning to wean away from America and is trying to balance between China and America. We will see how long those under American hegemony will continue to stay under it. The main reason why Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan have been loyal to America is because America opened up its market and transferred technology in exchange for support. The tech transfers are over and the American market is no longer as receptive to goods from those countries. China on the other hand is a rapidly growing market and countries that have been hostile to Chinese interests (such as Japan) have had to deal with all kinds of trade sanctions and boycotts that have had a negative effect on economic growth. Japan's alliance with America is beginning to harm the country not help as the Chinese market continues to grow.

I don't see any of those countries you mentioned staying under America's hegemony in the future (in around 2-3 decades) especially if the alliances begin to harm their economies (as in the case of Japan). However, none of those countries will end up in China's hegemony since they all have to maintain good relations with the US. Nevertheless, they will be Finlandized sometime in the future. South Korea is already somewhat being Finlandized.

Good point.

China has been trying to favor Taiwan economically, but now it shifts to S Korea. A lot of deals have been signed recently, and many of them do not benefit China much but will boost S Korea a lot.
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Old 12-15-2014, 12:53 AM
 
Location: Manhattan, NYC
1,274 posts, read 978,642 times
Reputation: 1250
Quote:
Originally Posted by X14Freak View Post
Definitely true about South Korea doing that. They also used to jail people and call them Communist agitators if they dared bring up anything about America's war crimes in the Korean War. In regards to Vietnam, there has been no apologies issued to Vietnam for poisoning the entire country with Agent Orange. There were also angry protests in the US against the journalists who released information about My Lai and they were threatened with death. As much as Americans and any other groups of people accuse Japan about not being sufficiently apologetic, they are often just as bad.

BTW, people always point out that the Germans apologized for the Holocaust but they never point out that the Germans never issued an apology for the Herero and Namaqua genocide and usually argue over the semantics of whether it constituted a genocide.
OK but what about the Warschauer Kniefall? Abe should learn from Willy Brandt. It will change a lot of things.

Would he dare?!?
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Old 12-15-2014, 01:02 AM
 
Location: Manhattan, NYC
1,274 posts, read 978,642 times
Reputation: 1250
Quote:
Originally Posted by X14Freak View Post
Latin America is under American hegemony and suffer from crushing poverty and horrific governance.

South Korea is slowly beginning to wean away from America and is trying to balance between China and America. We will see how long those under American hegemony will continue to stay under it. The main reason why Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan have been loyal to America is because America opened up its market and transferred technology in exchange for support. The tech transfers are over and the American market is no longer as receptive to goods from those countries. China on the other hand is a rapidly growing market and countries that have been hostile to Chinese interests (such as Japan) have had to deal with all kinds of trade sanctions and boycotts that have had a negative effect on economic growth. Japan's alliance with America is beginning to harm the country not help as the Chinese market continues to grow.

I don't see any of those countries you mentioned staying under America's hegemony in the future (in around 2-3 decades) especially if the alliances begin to harm their economies (as in the case of Japan). However, none of those countries will end up in China's hegemony since they all have to maintain good relations with the US. Nevertheless, they will be Finlandized sometime in the future. South Korea is already somewhat being Finlandized.
Just because a country is cooperating with the US or signing some treaties with China does not mean that it is Finlandized.
Korea put realpolitik ahead of their historic relationship with the US, and that doesn't mean that Korea downgrades its alliance ties with the US. At least, not for most people.

If China does not want to sign those deals, let them break it. They don't need these markets, even in 5 decades, right?!?

Just waiting the day when Korea will be unified, and Japan will stop acting stupid and focus on making alliances against China to counter balance their influence.

That will bring some fresh airs in the region.

Last edited by Gasolin; 12-15-2014 at 01:16 AM..
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Old 12-15-2014, 01:29 AM
 
Location: Metro Phoenix
11,039 posts, read 16,854,315 times
Reputation: 12950
Quote:
Originally Posted by X14Freak View Post
Latin America is under American hegemony and suffer from crushing poverty and horrific governance.

South Korea is slowly beginning to wean away from America and is trying to balance between China and America. We will see how long those under American hegemony will continue to stay under it. The main reason why Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan have been loyal to America is because America opened up its market and transferred technology in exchange for support. The tech transfers are over and the American market is no longer as receptive to goods from those countries. China on the other hand is a rapidly growing market and countries that have been hostile to Chinese interests (such as Japan) have had to deal with all kinds of trade sanctions and boycotts that have had a negative effect on economic growth. Japan's alliance with America is beginning to harm the country not help as the Chinese market continues to grow.

I don't see any of those countries you mentioned staying under America's hegemony in the future (in around 2-3 decades) especially if the alliances begin to harm their economies (as in the case of Japan). However, none of those countries will end up in China's hegemony since they all have to maintain good relations with the US. Nevertheless, they will be Finlandized sometime in the future. South Korea is already somewhat being Finlandized.
I think that Japan's alliance with America is less a problem than

a) their top-level political instability
b) two decades' worth of relative stagnation after the postwar boom
c) social problems pertaining to a work culture that is incompatible with family life
d) the ensuing aging population and negative birthrate due to the above
e) lingering, regional dislike and mistrust due to their actions in the earlier part of the 20th centurty

Compare this with nations like Taiwan, Korea, and China, all of whom happily do a fairly brisk trade with the US.
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Old 12-15-2014, 01:49 AM
 
Location: Taipei
8,864 posts, read 8,438,262 times
Reputation: 7413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
Good point.

China has been trying to favor Taiwan economically, but now it shifts to S Korea. A lot of deals have been signed recently, and many of them do not benefit China much but will boost S Korea a lot.
Favor Taiwan my ass.
Well, the economic ties do favor Taiwan...the 0.5% of the richest, perhaps. Average Taiwanese suffer a great deal from these economic ties. How KMT miserably lost the most recent election proves that Taiwanese hate your effin' "favor".

Shift to Korea all you want, let's see how Korea will cope.

Btw I agree with 415, Japan's biggest problem is most definitely not their bitter relations with the Chinese.
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Old 12-15-2014, 02:07 AM
 
9,229 posts, read 9,751,529 times
Reputation: 3316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
Favor Taiwan my ass.
Well, the economic ties do favor Taiwan...the 0.5% of the richest, perhaps. Average Taiwanese suffer a great deal from these economic ties. How KMT miserably lost the most recent election proves that Taiwanese hate your effin' "favor".

Shift to Korea all you want, let's see how Korea will cope.

Btw I agree with 415, Japan's biggest problem is most definitely not their bitter relations with the Chinese.
If S Korea has been benefiting from China and Taiwan does not, I think it is Taiwan's problem. You failed to deal with China.

Although Taiwanese young people have been hating China for about two decades, mainland people just started to dislike Taiwanese recently. (Even 10 years ago, people did not care, partly due to limited access of information.)
And the "dislike" will certainly matter.
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Old 12-15-2014, 05:19 AM
 
Location: Taipei
8,864 posts, read 8,438,262 times
Reputation: 7413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
If S Korea has been benefiting from China and Taiwan does not, I think it is Taiwan's problem. You failed to deal with China.

Although Taiwanese young people have been hating China for about two decades, mainland people just started to dislike Taiwanese recently. (Even 10 years ago, people did not care, partly due to limited access of information.)
And the "dislike" will certainly matter.
I can write an essay to answer you back but it'd be way too long and nobody needs that. Besides, we're going way off topic.
To make a long story short, Korea's success is not about China, and I was simply implying that closer economic ties are not always beneficial. They can be backfiring as well. I wasn't comparing Korea and Taiwan at all.

Btw I must know too few Chinese because pretty much all the Chinese I've met have had a great impression over Taiwan, they either would like to visit or just have endless nice things to say about us(which is quite confusing lmao).
But well, you certainly know more Chinese than I do so I sincerely hope that the "dislike" towards us means that your territorial ambition over Taiwan is gonna die down soon. What's the point of unification if you hate us? Lol.
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Old 12-15-2014, 08:32 AM
 
9,229 posts, read 9,751,529 times
Reputation: 3316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
I can write an essay to answer you back but it'd be way too long and nobody needs that. Besides, we're going way off topic.
To make a long story short, Korea's success is not about China, and I was simply implying that closer economic ties are not always beneficial. They can be backfiring as well. I wasn't comparing Korea and Taiwan at all.

Btw I must know too few Chinese because pretty much all the Chinese I've met have had a great impression over Taiwan, they either would like to visit or just have endless nice things to say about us(which is quite confusing lmao).
But well, you certainly know more Chinese than I do so I sincerely hope that the "dislike" towards us means that your territorial ambition over Taiwan is gonna die down soon. What's the point of unification if you hate us? Lol.
Mainland Chinese are increasingly disliking Hong Kongers too, but they will not give up Hong Kong. This can change too.
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