Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Asia
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-16-2018, 09:00 PM
 
5,428 posts, read 3,492,366 times
Reputation: 5031

Advertisements

Is the meeting still on?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-16-2018, 09:38 PM
 
4,668 posts, read 3,896,255 times
Reputation: 3437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
Is the meeting still on?
The Trump-Kim meeting is still on for June 12th, but N Korea has cancelled some other high level meetings with S Korea.

N Korea cancels talks with South Korea and warns US - BBC News

The US/S. Korea should cancel military drills until June 12th imo. One less way for N Korea to back out. We have dialed back the drills prior to the summit, but they should be completely put on hold until further notice.

Some other interesting links.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...e-analysts-say

https://news.google.com/gn/news/vide...n&gl=US&ned=us

https://www.upi.com/B-52-bomber-excl...2401526477870/
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2018, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Howard County, Maryland
16,553 posts, read 10,611,270 times
Reputation: 36572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattks View Post
The US/S. Korea should cancel military drills until June 12th imo. One less way for N Korea to back out. We have dialed back the drills prior to the summit, but they should be completely put on hold until further notice.

I respectfully disagree. I think that Kim Jong-un would interpret this as a sign of weakness. I'd rather he be subtly reminded, through the continuation of the drills, just what we are capable of doing to him if he doesn't behave himself and honor his agreements.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2018, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
13,561 posts, read 10,351,037 times
Reputation: 8252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
It's good to be skeptical, it is indeed a typical tactic, and they are not just playing games. The difference here is 1.) added pressure by the current US Administration of not just sanctions, but destruction, 2.) added pressure it seems by China (which really was the key here). And perhaps most importantly: 3.) Apparantly N. Korea has had a catostrophic disaster at it's main test facility. Cave collapse, hundreds dead, radioactive leaks all over the place.

It may be that Kim Jung is throwing in the towel for now. He is agreeing to stop testing because he simply can't test anymore at least for the forseeable future. It may take him years to recover from his test facility disaster.
On the contrary - Kim got what he wanted from Trump - an acknowledgement that he is a legitimate player, without really giving up anything - with the summit proposed. This isn't really anything new from the NK playbook.

Nothing at all is set at all - just the premise that they'll meet.

And in fact, it looks like Rocket Man just played Trump like a fiddle.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2018, 02:42 PM
 
14,993 posts, read 23,881,675 times
Reputation: 26523
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverkris View Post
On the contrary - Kim got what he wanted from Trump - an acknowledgement that he is a legitimate player, without really giving up anything - with the summit proposed. This isn't really anything new from the NK playbook.

Nothing at all is set at all - just the premise that they'll meet.

And in fact, it looks like Rocket Man just played Trump like a fiddle.
Contrary to what? There is nothing in your statement that is contrary to what I wrote really. However I will submit that NK did give up something - 3 US citizens he had in jail, essentially hostages.
Weather he is playing Trump like a fiddle as he has done for all US presidents before this has yet to be determined.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-03-2018, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
7,644 posts, read 4,591,848 times
Reputation: 12703
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverkris View Post
On the contrary - Kim got what he wanted from Trump - an acknowledgement that he is a legitimate player, without really giving up anything - with the summit proposed. This isn't really anything new from the NK playbook.

Nothing at all is set at all - just the premise that they'll meet.

And in fact, it looks like Rocket Man just played Trump like a fiddle.
I'm not so sure about that. Remember when Trump first took office. He got in trouble for taking a call from Taiwan. His first calls were from Japan and Korea. All this Russia stuff aside, Trump has an agenda he's keeping close to the chest and it's the SE Asia situation. Sometimes a photo-op is an easy give-away. Especially when any friendship presented as having been gained can be tweeted away in an instance.

My .02 is this is a facade. The US has already tried all other options. N. Korea simply can't be trusted, and frankly has been China's puppet anyway. Trump wants to deliver a very personal message to Kim. My guess is that message is....we can agree to anything here in public, but I'm promising in private to have you and your family taken out if you don't help us transition N. Korea to normalcy. Do that, and you have a long and comfortable life ahead of you and your family, with some modest, but non-authoritative, role with the country.

N. Korea is a puppet. If Trump can get them to a legitimate government, everyone wins except China.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-03-2018, 04:52 PM
 
4,668 posts, read 3,896,255 times
Reputation: 3437
Quote:
Originally Posted by artillery77 View Post
I'm not so sure about that. Remember when Trump first took office. He got in trouble for taking a call from Taiwan. His first calls were from Japan and Korea. All this Russia stuff aside, Trump has an agenda he's keeping close to the chest and it's the SE Asia situation. Sometimes a photo-op is an easy give-away. Especially when any friendship presented as having been gained can be tweeted away in an instance.

My .02 is this is a facade. The US has already tried all other options. N. Korea simply can't be trusted, and frankly has been China's puppet anyway. Trump wants to deliver a very personal message to Kim. My guess is that message is....we can agree to anything here in public, but I'm promising in private to have you and your family taken out if you don't help us transition N. Korea to normalcy. Do that, and you have a long and comfortable life ahead of you and your family, with some modest, but non-authoritative, role with the country.

N. Korea is a puppet. If Trump can get them to a legitimate government, everyone wins except China.
I don't entirely agree. I don't believe N Korea is China or anyone else's puppet. N Korea has been off the rails since the Soviet Union lost control of them just prior to the Korean War. The Soviet Union was a very minimal player in the Korean War, and North Korea pivoted toward China during and after that time period, but Chinese-N Korean relations are not very good and haven't been for well over a decade. China heavily influences N Korea, but that does not mean they control N Korea.

China does win if N Korea collapses. N Korea is no longer necessary for a buffer between China and the West. China has pivoted toward S Korea over a decade ago and unlike N Korea, they have a great trade relationship, and that is what China is all about. China isn't going to become the next super power by military might, but through trade and economics, and with a unified and prosperous Korea under Seoul, China does win.

Of course, on the flip side, China doesn't want to admit they were on the wrong side of history either and lose face. I think that is why China is working so hard to mediate between N Korea and US/S Korea.

N Korea has lost almost all their allies in the last decade, and even their closest ally, China, has much better relations with S Korea then N Korea.

I do agree this is all a facade. Every once in a while N Korea has to play along with the rest of the world and try to appear like they are a decent government, otherwise they are going to lose too much money for their aristocracy. I don't believe N Korea has any intentions of achieving "normalcy."

I hope I am wrong, but I believe the only way N Korea is going to see change is by a toppling of their government. I personally believe this will happen internally at some point. China and the US/S Korea are both ready to jump in if that happens. China keeps a large mobilized force on the border, just in case this happens. It will be really interesting to see what happens, if that did happen. Would China simply occupy until the situation is stabilized and then hand over whatever it is administrating to S Korea, or try to keep it and install a new government of N Korea. Either way, I think that is what will happen.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-03-2018, 08:14 PM
 
5,428 posts, read 3,492,366 times
Reputation: 5031
I'm glad that the June 12 summit is still happening after all. Don't expect much out of it, but I'm interested in seeing how things play out.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-03-2018, 09:30 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
13,561 posts, read 10,351,037 times
Reputation: 8252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattks View Post
I don't entirely agree. I don't believe N Korea is China or anyone else's puppet. N Korea has been off the rails since the Soviet Union lost control of them just prior to the Korean War. The Soviet Union was a very minimal player in the Korean War, and North Korea pivoted toward China during and after that time period, but Chinese-N Korean relations are not very good and haven't been for well over a decade. China heavily influences N Korea, but that does not mean they control N Korea.

China does win if N Korea collapses. N Korea is no longer necessary for a buffer between China and the West. China has pivoted toward S Korea over a decade ago and unlike N Korea, they have a great trade relationship, and that is what China is all about. China isn't going to become the next super power by military might, but through trade and economics, and with a unified and prosperous Korea under Seoul, China does win.

Of course, on the flip side, China doesn't want to admit they were on the wrong side of history either and lose face. I think that is why China is working so hard to mediate between N Korea and US/S Korea.

N Korea has lost almost all their allies in the last decade, and even their closest ally, China, has much better relations with S Korea then N Korea.

I do agree this is all a facade. Every once in a while N Korea has to play along with the rest of the world and try to appear like they are a decent government, otherwise they are going to lose too much money for their aristocracy. I don't believe N Korea has any intentions of achieving "normalcy."

I hope I am wrong, but I believe the only way N Korea is going to see change is by a toppling of their government. I personally believe this will happen internally at some point. China and the US/S Korea are both ready to jump in if that happens. China keeps a large mobilized force on the border, just in case this happens. It will be really interesting to see what happens, if that did happen. Would China simply occupy until the situation is stabilized and then hand over whatever it is administrating to S Korea, or try to keep it and install a new government of N Korea. Either way, I think that is what will happen.
I agree that NK is not a puppet. They've been able to play their hand well for decades despite their very vulnerable situation.

I don't agree that China wins if NK collapses. Actually, they're pretty darned fearful if that happens, because they may be faced with an onslaught of refugees trying to cross the Yalu river going into China, and therefore a border security issue.

They're also very wary of a united Korea, because it is likely to be dominated by the South and therefore aligned with the US, which is unnerving from a geopolitical point of view to the Chinese. Remember that China has historically seen Korea as a buffer state for centuries. Having a divided Korea, for the present, actually gives China a bit more of a territorial buffer - they can at least influence North Korea to some extent and put distance between them and the US-S. Korea - Japan grouping.

So it might be in China's current interest to maintain the status quo - though that's also a precarious position, and Beijing isn't all that fond of NK's actions and antics at times.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-03-2018, 11:03 PM
 
Location: Honolulu/DMV Area/NYC
30,617 posts, read 18,198,614 times
Reputation: 34471
There will be no united Korea, but hopefully there can be peace in the region.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Asia

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top