Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
thanks for the insight, though there are something that I do not agree with.
let's limit the scope to say the chinese that I'm talking about are the people of canton province that where most of the people in hong kong originated from.
a high number of hong kong people are actually canton people that literally swim to hk as the british had a policy of granting citizenship as long as you somehow reached hk legally or not. During the hard times in china through out the 20th century, hong konger are being consider "higher class citizens" by all of the chinese. Chinese entertainment, fashions and technology are all centered in hong kong as all of the chinese look to the south as their prefer way of life.
As a result, the hong kong people has developed a sense of superiority over the rest of the chinese. What they are trying to do right now, is to hang onto that superiority. By the time the pearl delta area initiated, shenzheng and more or less guangzhou, has surpassed hong kong.
Yes most Hong Kong Chinese are Cantonese but not all of them swam to Hong Kong to flee the communists. Many already had roots in Hong Kong prior to 1949, my maternal grandparents included. And the British did close the border and return a great many Chinese to the Mainland in later years. As late as the early 2000's after the handover, there were still special police in the New Territories that tracked down illegal Mainlanders to return to the Mainland. You are right in that there was and maybe still is an air of superiority over Mainland Chinese in Hong Kong but the reasons are not as clear. Feeling that one is superior to another is nothing new in China, villages and cities used to always think this way towards each other. Many rich Shanghainese fled to Hong Kong in 1949 and took with them their culture including their exotic seafood based cuisine and the wearing of qipaos (cheongsams). I bet not a few looked down on the local Cantonese and considered them boorish.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maomao
the chinese people value the cantonese language too, but from what I have seen, in the 2010s the chinese government, both local and ccp is doing better at protecting the local dialects than in the 2000s. there are no less if not more cantonese radio stations and tv stations in canton than ever before.
Is that really true? Almost all of the articles I have read in the news say that Cantonese is being less used nowadays due to heavy promotion of Mandarin and that many youngsters under the age of 20 are even refusing to speak it with their own family members. I was watching Youtube clips the other day of my father's ancestral village and the announcements on the public buses are both in Mandarin and standard Cantonese so Cantonese has not disappeared but I have my doubts on it being highly promoted right now. Funnily enough, Beijing television actors now infuse many Cantonese slang terms into their language, something my own Mandarin teacher in secondary school would have disallowed. That slang had to have come from Hong Kong which may be a reason why the Central Government wants to limit Hong Kong language and culture because it is corrupting standard Mandarin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maomao
as for compromise, I don't think there is any room. Simply because the chinese people are simply not on the hong konger's sides. if the chinese people had their way, the measures will be a lot more drastic, as chinese think that the hong kong people should start paying taxes to the central government, and gets less discount on the electricity, water, and food they receive from the mainland.
I do not think Hong Kong gets discounts on electricty, water, and food. I was last in Hong Kong in 2011 and food was more expensive than the Mainland. The cost of living was still higher than the Mainland though Shenzhen and Guangzhou may have caught up by now.
Yes most Hong Kong Chinese are Cantonese but not all of them swam to Hong Kong to flee the communists. Many already had roots in Hong Kong prior to 1949, my maternal grandparents included. And the British did close the border and return a great many Chinese to the Mainland in later years. As late as the early 2000's after the handover, there were still special police in the New Territories that tracked down illegal Mainlanders to return to the Mainland. You are right in that there was and maybe still is an air of superiority over Mainland Chinese in Hong Kong but the reasons are not as clear. Feeling that one is superior to another is nothing new in China, villages and cities used to always think this way towards each other. Many rich Shanghainese fled to Hong Kong in 1949 and took with them their culture including their exotic seafood based cuisine and the wearing of qipaos (cheongsams). I bet not a few looked down on the local Cantonese and considered them boorish.
Is that really true? Almost all of the articles I have read in the news say that Cantonese is being less used nowadays due to heavy promotion of Mandarin and that many youngsters under the age of 20 are even refusing to speak it with their own family members. I was watching Youtube clips the other day of my father's ancestral village and the announcements on the public buses are both in Mandarin and standard Cantonese so Cantonese has not disappeared but I have my doubts on it being highly promoted right now. Funnily enough, Beijing television actors now infuse many Cantonese slang terms into their language, something my own Mandarin teacher in secondary school would have disallowed. That slang had to have come from Hong Kong which may be a reason why the Central Government wants to limit Hong Kong language and culture because it is corrupting standard Mandarin.
I do not think Hong Kong gets discounts on electricty, water, and food. I was last in Hong Kong in 2011 and food was more expensive than the Mainland. The cost of living was still higher than the Mainland though Shenzhen and Guangzhou may have caught up by now.
yes, but that is why I limited to the canton province people when I refer to the chinese in the previous post. Some fled to hong kong to flee from the communist and some simply wants to take a risk for better standard of living for their future. So in reality, all the hk chinese came from mainland
regarding the cantonese.
yes, that is really true, you can go search for canton/guangzhou/shenzhen news and you can see cantonese stations from canton province and there are a lot of them on youtube (there are many chinese national/local stations uploading their programs in youtube by the way). Schools speak and teach mandarin obviously, but the cantonese language, along with cantonese opera is well protected and cherished by the people of canton province.
the point I was trying to make is that cantonese is not the language of hk obviously.
They do get discount, think of it like this, people from canton gets those supplies directly from the source.
people on from hong kong gets it from local electric/water/food suppliers (middle man) so the middle man took a cut from both the supplier and the user. The cost of living is hk is pushed up artificially by the cost of real estate.
Try to use logic. Does it make sense that a born and raised Norwegian would be pro-CCP. Maybe there is a reason it does not make sense?
Stop reading between the lines, and you will notice that I am only arguing against violent protests and your bigotry. I can also tell you that I have met severall Norwegian who has never been to China who shares the same view about the protest and would be disgusted if they heard your massacre comment, are they pro-CCP too?
its not about being anti-chinese. Its about fascism and authoritarianism. The CCP is basically INGSOC from 1984. Free people don't want to live under that. The only history you need to read is Romance of the three kingdoms unabridged and water margin. No southie wants to be told by a northie what to do. Xi is basically Cao Cao. Pooh bear is grasping for honey because he messed up bad PLA bioweapon COVID-19 and tried to make all under heaven under the PRC .
its not about being anti-chinese. Its about fascism and authoritarianism. The CCP is basically INGSOC from 1984. Free people don't want to live under that. The only history you need to read is Romance of the three kingdoms unabridged and water margin. No southie wants to be told by a northie what to do. Xi is basically Cao Cao. Pooh bear is grasping for honey because he messed up bad PLA bioweapon COVID-19 and tried to make all under heaven under the PRC .
Right. People in Hong Kong, as in Taiwan, do not identify as Chinese in nationality but of course they still know that they are ethnically Chinese. Just like how I am American, not Chinese in nationality but I still am ethnically Chinese and love the Chinese people. That's why I want the Chinese to be freed from all tyranny such as the CCP. The HKers would rather be ruled by the white British once again than remain under Mainland achiness rule. The divide is political rather than ethnic.
No southie ever wants to be told by a northerner what to do... How true! No damn Southern cracker ain't want to be told what to do by a Carpetbagging Yankee (US, post civil war). For whatever reason the good guys are always in the South (South Vietnam, South Korea, Southern Kingdom of Judah, the KMT had their stronghold in Southern China, the Southern U.S. today is capitalist while the bulk of American socialists live in the Northern US like Bernie Sanders in Vermont).
I am only arguing against violent protests and your bigotry. I can also tell you that I have met severall Norwegian who has never been to China who shares the same view about the protest and would be disgusted if they heard your massacre comment, are they pro-CCP too?
No you are not. All your do is blaming HKers for protesting with the "HKers should've been happy with the freedom they had" when they had extremely little freedom and that they were violent when the police brutality was absolutely out of control.
Maybe you should tell your Norwegian friends that you think Norway should never have fought back when Nazi Germany invaded you and that Vidkun Quisling had the right idea since that's clearly your stance on Hong Kong's situation now. I would love to hear about their reactions.
You clearly have a pro-CCP agenda, you just can't handle it that I called you out for it.
Try to use logic. Does it make sense that a born and raised Norwegian would be pro-CCP. Maybe there is a reason it does not make sense?
Stop reading between the lines, and you will notice that I am only arguing against violent protests and your bigotry. I can also tell you that I have met severall Norwegian who has never been to China who shares the same view about the protest and would be disgusted if they heard your massacre comment, are they pro-CCP too?
I think Camlon may be a wumao masquerading as a more moderate pro HK democracy person in an attempt to appeal to the pro democracy camp's common sense.
I do not condone violence from protestors and don't pretend that all protestors are good. But the cause the protestors are fighting for is all good and the CCP is pure evil. And for every violent amateur protestor there's several more HK police armed to the teeth and professionally trained to kill. Any rule of law has ceased to exist in HK.
People here are asking why HKers oppose the extradition bill when France already has an extradition agreement with China. That's different. France is a sovereign country that still has power over whether it wants to extradite citizens to China. HK is a puppet state.
As for the national security bill, it is 100 percent blatant and unconstiutional tyranny. As long as Beijing thinks it's above the law, there will be no democracy nor freedom in HK. The only option for HK is independence or reversion to UK rule, or merger with Taiwan.
And if you still think the protesters are ridiculous, consider the fact that people in any country, including you, would protest if Beijing's tyranny came to your country. The fact that you aren't protesting is a sign of how privileged you are to live in a free and prosperous country like America or the UK or Germany.
Don't understand why people have so much time discussing a pro Trump or US "expert's opinion" here as if the US is always right. Normal HK people are busy with work or enjoying life while seeing other non normal people in HK being arrested by causing harm to society. Not all students in HK are bad, schools have resumed, many are busy studying, those who are causing problems are not part of us, they belong to western countries but are unhappily discriminated there and may be treated with police brutality against non white people. These people are just funny, hate China but buy from pro China supermarkets in HK and ride the pro China MTR every day. Their "anti China HK economy" is laughed by people because it also involves importing from Mainland China indirectly or buying from pro China HK businesses.
I think the bad students are influenced by their parents. Their teachers' role is only secondary. And I think the subject Liberal Studies is not problematic, it is designed by the HK government which you can rely on for being right on facts like Japanese invasion of China and HK being a part of China. Some of the teachers expressing their own opinions influenced their students and parents' role is even bigger.
Fact is most media of HK are not anti Mainland China, only a few are. There are far more non anti mainland China newspapers and their readers than their competitors. Tv stations in HK are all neutral but some of their staff are not. Censored news in mainland China may be reported by most non anti mainland China media in HK. The HKSAR gov condemns teachers who teach non true things or 'bad things' they IMAGINED.
In the last few days, there are more people, mainly non young people, signing to support the new national security bill than the number of protestors. Adding the supporters of the bill and many HK people who don't care, the sum number is far larger than the people against it. People should need to know most HK people care more about peace and income, not influenced by bs of people not truly understanding HK such as foreigners who only know one side instead of both sides of the controversy. Both English and Cantonese news of big HK media report both sides' opinions instead of only one side by western and taiwanese media.
Last edited by Tomboy-; 05-28-2020 at 05:07 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
