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You can apreciate the help provided by america to protect countries you like, without being a fan of the US. I don't see the conflict.
Personally I am much more of a fan of America from 1941 to the 90s. My feeling is that the US started to economically and socially decline after 2000 and after 2015 the US started to lash outwards at its enemies while becoming more similar to its enemies at home.
American economy has performed exceptionally well in the past decade with the tech giants dominating overwhelmingly all over the world. Even in the days of covid the recession is far more severe in Europe than in America. The only major countries that have been comparable are Australia and China (a developing country).
If America can be described as having declined since 2000, Europe is literally a corpse.
Last edited by Greysholic; 10-13-2020 at 10:29 PM..
American economy has performed exceptionally well in the past decade with the tech giants dominating overwhelmingly all over the world. Even in the days of covid the recession is far more severe in Europe than in America. The only major countries that have been comparable are Australia and China (a developing country).
If America can be described as having declined since 2000, Europe is literally a corpse.
If you are such an America fanboy, how come you never tried to immigrate there?
If you are such an America fanboy, how come you never tried to immigrate there?
Straw man troll argument. I am by no means an American fanboy. I am simply stating facts.
EU’s economy used to be much larger than America’s economy before 2008, now it’s smaller by a fair margin despite having 100 million more people. Even including Britain, Switzerland, Norway and Russia, the entire European economy is only slightly larger than the American economy despite having more than twice the population. Actually it’s probably smaller now as the UK has been hit remarkably hard by COVID.
EU’s GDP per capita is now (~35k, 2019 estimates) about 60% of America’s GDP per capita (~67k, 2019 estimates) and is lower than its 2008 value (~38k) while America’s GDP per capita today is higher than every single EU country except Luxembourg, a micro state, and Ireland whose figure is laughably artificial thanks to American big tech bypassing taxes in Dublin. In 2008 it was around the same as France (48k), now France’s GDP per capita is 25k smaller than America’s.
According to IMF projections, America’s growth rate in 2020 is -4.3% while Euro Area’s growth rate is -8.3%. Both are tragic, but Euro area is twice as tragic.
Other than Skype and Spotify, no European tech company has had relevant market presence in the past decade. Everyone is using American apps and smartphones (or Asian ones if they can’t afford an iPhone).
I can go on and on. If America can be called “having declined”, Europe is completely dead, and is getting deader by day as COVID recession will be a longer and more painful one for Europe than for America.
Last edited by Greysholic; 10-14-2020 at 05:27 AM..
Straw man troll argument. I am by no means an American fanboy. I am simply stating facts.
EU’s economy used to be much larger than America’s economy before 2008, now it’s smaller by a fair margin despite having 100 million more people. Even including Britain, Switzerland, Norway and Russia, the entire European economy is only slightly larger than the American economy despite having more than twice the population. Actually it’s probably smaller now as the UK has been hit remarkably hard by COVID.
EU’s GDP per capita is now (~35k, 2019 estimates) about 60% of America’s GDP per capita (~67k, 2019 estimates) and is lower than its 2008 value (~38k) while America’s GDP per capita today is higher than every single EU country except Luxembourg, a micro state, and Ireland whose figure is laughably artificial thanks to American big tech bypassing taxes in Dublin. In 2008 it was around the same as France (48k), now France’s GDP per capita is 25k smaller than America’s.
According to IMF projections, America’s growth rate in 2020 is -4.3% while Euro Area’s growth rate is -8.3%. Both are tragic, but Euro area is twice as tragic.
Other than Skype and Spotify, no European tech company has had relevant market presence in the past decade. Everyone is using American apps and smartphones (or Asian ones if they can’t afford an iPhone).
I can go on and on. If America can be called “having declined”, Europe is completely dead, and is getting deader by day as COVID recession will be a longer and more painful one for Europe than for America.
Yup. Covid is killing Europe (economically that is). They have suffered financially much much more than the US...and now areas of Europe are talking about shutting down again. Amazing, even WHO has indicated recently that "shutting down" is not the best option.
Straw man troll argument. I am by no means an American fanboy. I am simply stating facts.
EU’s economy used to be much larger than America’s economy before 2008, now it’s smaller by a fair margin despite having 100 million more people. Even including Britain, Switzerland, Norway and Russia, the entire European economy is only slightly larger than the American economy despite having more than twice the population. Actually it’s probably smaller now as the UK has been hit remarkably hard by COVID.
EU’s GDP per capita is now (~35k, 2019 estimates) about 60% of America’s GDP per capita (~67k, 2019 estimates) and is lower than its 2008 value (~38k) while America’s GDP per capita today is higher than every single EU country except Luxembourg, a micro state, and Ireland whose figure is laughably artificial thanks to American big tech bypassing taxes in Dublin. In 2008 it was around the same as France (48k), now France’s GDP per capita is 25k smaller than America’s.
According to IMF projections, America’s growth rate in 2020 is -4.3% while Euro Area’s growth rate is -8.3%. Both are tragic, but Euro area is twice as tragic.
Other than Skype and Spotify, no European tech company has had relevant market presence in the past decade. Everyone is using American apps and smartphones (or Asian ones if they can’t afford an iPhone).
I can go on and on. If America can be called “having declined”, Europe is completely dead, and is getting deader by day as COVID recession will be a longer and more painful one for Europe than for America.
People do not earn GDP, they earn wages and mainly spend it on goods in the local market. Lets look at salaries instead.
Median wages 2017 adjusted for cost of living
Switzerland: 63543
Germany: 54476
Denmark: 51601
France: 40291
US: 38445
Spain: 34520
Poland: 21938
So nothing impressive by American wages. It was better before, but wages has been stagnating over the last decades. Income taxes are much lower, but property taxes are often very high in the USA. Americans need to work longer hours and get much less vacation. Americans need to pay much more for health care, college and child care. Americans have no maternity leave system and the welfare system is filled with holes.
America has one of the highest drug overdose rate in the world. Life expectancy is very low and infant mortality is very high for being a developed country and getting worse. Doctors prescribe opioids that make people addicted. In many American cities like Los Angeles there are homeless people everywhere using drugs. Just search up videos of Venice Beach and see for yourself. Race relations are very bad and there are major riots all over the country.
And its going to get worse. The federal budget deficit has grown to 3 trillion, and is now just as high as federal income. Exports has dropped and the trade balance is getting worse. Many states are going bankrupt and is going to need federal aid making the budget deficit even worse. And the president is a moron who could not even prevent himself from getting infected, let alone protecting the country.
There is a reason Europeans have lost all interest in moving to America. I am from Norway, and many Norwegians think America has become a joke. It wasn't always like this, 15 years ago many Norwegians were interested in living in America.
So nothing impressive by american wages. Income taxes are much lower, but property taxes are often very high in the USA. Americans need to work longer hours and get much less vacation. Americans need to pay much more for health care, college and child care. Americans have no maternity leave system and the welfare system is filled with holes.
Laughably biased figures. You only picked this data set to make America look bad.
UNECE: Average monthly wages (2015)
United States: $4,893
Germany: $3,478
United Kingdom: $3,461
France: $3,374
And these are gross wages. Net wages in Germany, France and Britain are barely 30k while it'd still be >50k in America.
Americans also pay far less for real estate, cars and electronic devices than Europeans. And the so-called short work hours in Europe is a myth. Those figures always include part-time workers, of course they would look short. The actual work hours in Europe are not much shorter than American work hours at all except those with 35 hour work week (France, Finland, Sweden etc.).
Also, any half decent American companies would offer paid leaves, decent health insurance plan, and maternity leaves. European welfare state is only good in few selective countries, and it's in a precarious position as the society is extremely aged. Pensions are getting cut left and right in Western and Northern Europe and people have been protesting. Have you already forgotten about gilets jaunes?
And in Southern Europe you have extremely high taxes and none of those perks. To say less about Eastern Europe. Overall, Europe is just not doing well.
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And its going to get worse. The federal budget deficit has grown to 3 trillion, and is now just as high as federal income. Exports has dropped and the trade balance is getting worse. Many states are going bankrupt and is going to need federal aid making the budget deficit even worse. And the president is a moron who could not even prevent himself from getting infected, let alone protecting the country.
Right, because there are no large European countries with ridiculous amount of debt. Italy's **** indebted economy is totally not a problem at all.
And Boris Johnson, a European leader, got infected months before Donald Trump did. The reality is both Europe and America totally failed to contain the virus.
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America has one of the highest drug overdose rate in the world. Life expectency is very low and infant mortality is very high for being a developed country and getting worse. Doctors prescribe opiods that make people addicted. In many American cities like Los Angeles there are homeless people everywhere using drugs. Just search up videos of Venice Beach and see for yourself. Race relations have never been worse and there are major riots all over the country.
There is a reason Europeans have lost all interest in moving to America.
No one is arguing that America is perfect. It obviously is not. But strictly talking about the economy, America ****s all over Europe's sluggish 2010s. That is just a fact.
And Europeans have no business lecturing North Americans on race relations.
EU Commission, about 99% white.
US Congress, numerous people of colour.
The only reason why Europe doesn't have the same racial tensions as America does is because Europe is nowhere near as diverse and tolerant. People of colour hold many important positions in the US, but every so rarely do they achieve the same level of power in European countries except maybe in Britain and France.
Western Europeans lost interest in moving to America during the Cold War, and Southern and Eastern Europeans just move up north/west. It has nothing to do with how America is doing now.
There is a reason why Europe is projected to lose 15% of its population by 2050 while American population would grow 100 million. It's still a far more attractive immigrant destination for people from other countries than Europe.
And let me remind you once again how royally ****ed Europe is this year, and the 2021 projections are a total joke as it's October already and second wave is on full rage all over Europe.
Last edited by Greysholic; 10-14-2020 at 09:46 AM..
^ Well aside from the obvious that this topic has a "lot" to do with South Korea the whole thread turned into apples vs oranges debate: country (America) vs a continent (Europe). Economically America always had the advantage anyway, lack of monarchy, natural resources, popular language etc etc.
Europe still remains the moral and intellectual leader of the world though, America has plenty of issues starting from 100 years old presidents, to huge debt, declining currency and so on. Their best times were in the 90s and everyone who isn't American can or should see it.
Europe still remains the moral and intellectual leader of the world though, America has plenty of issues starting from 100 years old presidents, to huge debt, declining currency and so on. Their best times were in the 90s and everyone who isn't American can or should see it.
Moral and intellectual leader? Lmao give me a break. More like the world leader of hypocrisy.
It is nonsensical to judge a politician for their age, several countries in Europe are way more indebted than America, and compared to 10 years ago, Euro is very weak now. It’s only gotten a bit stronger in the past months, people seem to conveniently forget that €1 used to be $1.5 in 2008.
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