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huh? Welcome to the new decade. The US withdrew from northern syria way back in 2019. I am not sure if we have any troops there anymore, maybe some military advisors in the Kurdish territory.
You do know that the Biden administration just conducted an air strike in Syria right? The republicans (democrat reps as well actually) are currently pushing for just the opposite to what you stated - the limitation of Biden's decisions to take military action.
The US has been building bases in NE Syria all along. You're very poorly informed and given to reading only the news headlines. The details of the news indicated that only a small number were removed. And they were moved around in Syria and Iraq. Trump did the same in each location. He boasts that he's bringing troops home from Germany, Afghanistan, Syria, etc., but they're being replaced by a new unit being deployed in Romania, Syria, Iraq, etc.
The Republican congress want to stop a Democrat president from waging a conventional war because they expect that incumbent administration will exploit it politically to push through domestic programs they opposed. Clinton had earlier made that remark when she wanted to go to war. A declaration of war brings with it a total media propaganda onslaught to shape public opinion and raise the popularity of the president, thereby making it easier to get bills through Congress.
No I don't buy that. There is one, and only one person, to blame - Assad. What caused the GLOBAL (not strictly US) sanctions? It's not political reforms, but human rights reforms. Government behavior in regards to it's human rights record and involvement in terrorism.
The US sanction for one have 6 simple requirements:
End to Syrian and Russian aircraft bombing civilians.
Iranian, Syrian and Russian forces, as well as entities connected to them, no longer restrict humanitarian access to besieged areas and allow for civilians to leave freely.
All political prisoners are released, and the appropriate international human rights organizations are given full access to Syria's prisons and detention facilities.
Bombing of “medical facilities, schools, residential areas, and community gathering places, including markets” by Syrian, Russian, Iranian forces, as well as entities connected to them, ceases.
The possibility for the “safe, voluntary, and dignified return of Syrians displaced by the conflict” is achieved.
Accountability for “perpetrators of war crimes in Syria and justice for victims of war crimes committed by the Assad regime, including by participation in a credible and independent truth and reconciliation process.
Do this and no more sanctions. Is that so tough? Assad and his witch wife stop killing your own citizens, simple as that. The sanctions by the way have exemptions for humanitarian reasons - medical supplies, food, etc.
But I don't think that is the entire reason. Assad and his buddies are war profiteers. They are stealing the citizens of his country blind. They are also spending tons of money, along with Iran, in Proxy wars against Israel, KSA, and Yemen. Supporting Hezbollah and Hamas, and on and on.
It's hysterical reading this because it assumes the goal of Assad and Russia is to target Hospitals and Schools when that never was the case.
The US also bombs such targets, but no one accuses them of targeting civilians. The goal was to arm Islamic radicals, and use the Sunni majority hatred of minorities to overthrow the government. They targeted Christian Syrians who Assad had protected, as well as Shia.
They use (with US training) underground pathways to leave civilians as cannon fodder. Had any other form of warfare been used, the government would have fallen and American Jihadis would have won and turned Syria into a failed state.
The sanctions were placed for those reasons, but with the war dying down the jihadists have less civilian targets to cower behind, so these actions are no longer been taken.
The US however has said they will keep sanctions anyways to make sure "political reform" is passed so the Assad family will step down from power with democratic elections (due to the Sunni majority).
I don't think you have a proper grasp of US geopolitical interests and assume humanitarianism is a one way street:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714
I have an issue with the very topic of this post, by mentioning body counts it borders on a "troll post" with a subject intent to inflame rather than invite legitimate debate. Saddam was effectively toppled 3 weeks into the campaign and if the intent was simply to dispose of Saddam your casualty count should have ended there. Casualties after this period relate to the instability of Iraq. It invites a simplistic emotional response (as shown by some of the responses here) to a simplistic emotional post. For someone unlearned in history would it make sense to post "To topple Hitler it cost 500,000 American lives and 40 million allied, axis, and civilion lives". Of course we can both agree that the issues were more complex and the cause was just. The question does not make sense except to say "world war 2 occured, it cost 40 million lives", not "it cost 40 million lives to topple Hitler".
The toppling of Saddam was not done for the sake of humanitarianism, things are much too complicated.
Russia, and China should be jumping in the rescue soon enough. Or even France, and GB. Perhaps USA needs to redirect some of that gender study money from Pakistan to Syria. They could use some.
I don't think you have a proper grasp of US geopolitical interests and assume humanitarianism is a one way street: quote deleted...
Why in the world would you quote a thread that I wrote in 2006? That's....seriously strange, not to mention out of scope and out of context.
Listen, I know your Iranian background gives you a biased world view. That's OK, but just understand you don't have many countries that agree with you except Syria and North Korea and a few other authoritative police states, maybe Cuba. You do better when you are defending North Korea as you did in a prior Asia thread or expelling the virtues of fascism compared to "libertarianism" as you did in a recent history thread.
They killed the land-for-peace deal in 2006 between Israel and Syria that would have returned the Syrian Golan Heights.
The US offered normalization of relations in 2010 but this was rejected after the US waged war against Libya after the resumption of normal diplomatic ties and Libya removed any chemical and biological weapons stockpiles. After seeing the attacks by the US rebels on Ghaddaffi, the offer was flatly rejected.
The US attempted to create a civil war but was largely unsuccessful. The FSA turned out to have very few defectors from the Syrian army.
The US and its allies started the mobilization of jihadist mercenaries from N. Afria and from other parts of the world. Al Nusra was assembled by the Saudis and other ME governments with the US providing training in Turkey, Qatar, and Jordan. Jordan was provided compensation for the training base near Amman.
Al Nusra splintered into another major jihadist group ISIS after Saudi Arabia required members to pledge their loyalty. ISIS continued receiving support from Qatar. There were other extremists groups in Syria that were trained and coordinated by the US and its allies. This was leaked in a Pentagon report by Gen. Michael Flynn. It was also leaked by US newswires and Seymour Hersh who provided details of CIA operation to smuggle arms and mercenaries from Libya from Benghazi through the Turkish port of Ceyhan.
There were other myriad operations to support more than 600,000 mercenaries who were trained, paid, and coordinated by the US and its allies. Some came through the Balkans. Some came from Pakistan. Many of the most cruel fighters came from Chechnya where they fought under the CIA in the Georgian wars. They formed the Al Nusra and ISIS units that were extremely successful in the war and achieved notoriety for atrocities.
The occupation is illegal as mentioned. 911 AUMF doesn't apply unless one wants to invoke to justify a attack on any the governments and militia units opposing Syria's government. There is no UN authorization. Attempts to gain a declaration of war failed in the British House of Commons and rejected in the US Congress. Facts about the US and British complicity in the wars was well known, and the extent to which CIA fabricated intel in recent wars was noted by Obama as a key reason. Instead, he waged a covert war funded mostly by ME allies and using mercenaries. There was an implicit agreement between the US and the Saudis that the jihadists would receive military assistance as in Libya and other covert wars (See Red Line).
The sanctions are also illegal. The repeated use of prohibited weapons on civilians by the Al Nusra with the aid of US and NATO to fabricate legal cause indicate that the sanctions should be on the aggressor governments.
Your other accusations are off base as the US-backed mercenaries engaged in urban battle against the government forces and used hospitals, government buildings, etc. while traveling within cities and over large distances using extensive tunnel networks.
The sheer logistics of the undertaking of the war from the opposition side confirms the heavy foreign government involvement in instigating and continuing the war, not to mention supporting and paying 600,000 fighters for nearly 8 years. At one point, they shipped so many weapons to Syria that they ran out of new and operational weapons (see the Purple Shovel scandal).
There is not enough time to even dispute what you are saying, suffice to say just about every word you wrote is wrong or distorted or simply has nothing to do with the topic. Land for Peace deal - has nothing to do with today's troubles. Libya - has nothing to do with todays troubles, or Syria at all, except that it all relates to the "Arab Spring" that surfaced in various arab countries at the time. Al Nusra - has nothing to do with today's troubles as they essentially don't exist anymore, as they merged with other groups. You mention this in the context of the proxy war between Saudi Arabia and Iran. It's a mess, but what does that have to do with the topic? Quater is supporting Al Nusra, that support has been condemened by western powers including the US. Occupation - there is no "occupation" Sanctions - Under what international law is that illegal? It is a perfectly acceptable tool of statecraft. Mercenary and Tunnel Networks - huh? Are you sniffing glue? US forces were attacked by Russian mercenaries and Syrian forces back in 2018. Is that what you are talking about? Russians were beaten badly and ran home to momma.
Russia, and China should be jumping in the rescue soon enough. Or even France, and GB. Perhaps USA needs to redirect some of that gender study money from Pakistan to Syria. They could use some.
Nothing will happen with Turkey and US as obstacles to returning those territories to Syria and much of the territory having been ethnic cleansed of the original inhabitants, save the Kurds in NE Syria. You can't resettle the original inhabitants with those areas being used as staging areas for militias.
Since that regime is now a puppet of Iran and (to some extent) Russia, you would think they would come in to help. Nearby Lebanon however also is having some economic trouble.
Iran and Russia don't have the money to help. But even if they did, human suffering is the last thing those regimes care about. They would rather the people suffer so they can blame the USA.
There is not enough time to even dispute what you are saying, suffice to say just about every word you wrote is wrong or distorted or simply has nothing to do with the topic. Land for Peace deal - has nothing to do with today's troubles. Libya - has nothing to do with todays troubles, or Syria at all, except that it all relates to the "Arab Spring" that surfaced in various arab countries at the time. Al Nusra - has nothing to do with today's troubles as they essentially don't exist anymore, as they merged with other groups. You mention this in the context of the proxy war between Saudi Arabia and Iran. It's a mess, but what does that have to do with the topic? Quater is supporting Al Nusra, that support has been condemened by western powers including the US. Occupation - there is no "occupation" Sanctions - Under what international law is that illegal? It is a perfectly acceptable tool of statecraft. Mercenary and Tunnel Networks - huh? Are you sniffing glue? US forces were attacked by Russian mercenaries and Syrian forces back in 2018. Is that what you are talking about? Russians were beaten badly and ran home to momma.
You don't know what you're talking about. You're trying to rebut facts that were reported over the years of the war if you followed the war regularly. Some of the groups, such as Nusra, changed their names because their affiliation with Al Qaeda was well known. The whole charade of moderate rebels was conjured by the US to somehow make the opposition more acceptable to the public after US support for radical Muslim fighters was exposed by Gen. Flynn in 2015.
All those points have everything to do with the conflict. As soon as the Benghazi embassy annex was attacked in 2012, the US newswires published detailed layouts of the CIA smuggling operation that was being run out of the embassy and funnellng weapons to seven nearby armories run by allied MENA governments for the distribution of weapons to Syrian terrorists/fighters. It was way of technically claiming that the US did not have a direct hand in the war in Syria because the weapons and fighters were being handed off to to Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait, Turkey, Jordan, etc. Once that was exposed, Obama immediately signed an executive order authorizing the US involvement in the war in August 2012. Up until then, they were playing make-believe because the operation hadn't been exposed.
600,000 fighters, of which there are still some 50 to 100 thousand, have been getting paid for the efforts they've put in over 10 years. If you believe that they're just doing it for fun, something is seriously wrong with you and just lapping up the propaganda. The global Islamic jihad is a fake conspiracy theory put together to distract from the governments that have been recruiting these types of fighters since Afghanistan in the 70's. The hamming it up by ISIS for the US media is essentially a red herring. The serious threat these groups pose is as experienced soldiers who've fought in previous conflicts in Afghanistan, Georgia, Libya, etc.
YThe global Islamic jihad is a fake conspiracy theory put together to distract from the governments that have been recruiting these types of fighters since Afghanistan in the 70's. The hamming it up by ISIS for the US media is essentially a red herring. .
OK so Al Qaeda and ISIS is a fake conspiracy. Got it. Thanks.
I would say you can continue the topic in the P&C forum, but I think the Paranormal Forum is more fitting for you.
Iran and Russia don't have the money to help. But even if they did, human suffering is the last thing those regimes care about. They would rather the people suffer so they can blame the USA.
Good points. But Iran (and Syria) are also heavily financially invested in local conflicts in Yemen and targeting Israel. Also you have Syrian leadership living like Kings in palaces, Assad's wife doing weekly buying sprees in swanky shops in Paris and London while her people starve.
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