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To the OP - we all carry beliefs and feelings that are near and dear to our hearts - whether they be God, Jesus, Allah, ourselves, our parents, our spouses, our children, the environment, the universe, etc. Just because we don't believe in God - it doesn't mean that we don't have any beliefs and don't want to discuss things. I guess I feel like I have been on a quest for years to understand how very religious people think. I feel like it will help me to understand and be more tolerant of them. It would be nice to understand why so many people try to convert people and tell them that they are going to Hell unless they believe exactly as they do. It's hard for me to understand all the hatred and prejudice. It's hard for me to understand how people are so convinced that they know everything - that there IS a god, that there IS life after death, that there IS a hell. It's hard for me to grasp. I'm trying to understand their thinking. I have to say that I have learned a lot. But I don't worry about my own beliefs. I am very happy and at peace with my life.
Here I go being a nit-picker again, but Hitler identified himself as a Christian. He was raised Catholic and then turned to a more protestant ideology. He wrote against the occult in Mein Kampf. However, some historians say he was into the occult, and Hitler himself said, "We do not want any other god than Germany itself", indicating (perhaps) that he wasn't a Christian.
You're correct that people use labels to make themselves more appealing to some and revolting to others. Hitler was not above it.
That's sticky territory. It comes close to judging, no? Who decides who is and who is not a "true Christian"?
I left because some were on here stirring things up whereas I was looking for a serious discussion, but i am bored, putting off work, so I am back. As to who are "true christians", it would be those whose actions would reflect the teaching of Jesus. I wouldn't call this "judging", but an opinion based on observation of one's words and deeds. So in other words, those that hate or belittle in the name of christianity may be hypocrites and christians in name only. It appears atheists are afraid of the christians imposing their will, and Christians are afraid of the atheists imposing their will, and we're all afraid of the Muslin terrorists and nuts like Kim Yung Il. I think what we are all really afraid of is not Christians, or Muslims or Atheists, but sociopaths and nut jobs in positions of power and/or with access to weapons.
I think what we are all really afraid of is not Christians, or Muslims or Atheists, but sociopaths and nut jobs in positions of power and/or with access to weapons.
Good point, although in this part of the country at least, I'd say there is a positive correlation between Christians and those who don't respect the separation of church and state.
It appears atheists are afraid of the christians imposing their will, and Christians are afraid of the atheists imposing their will, and we're all afraid of the Muslin terrorists and nuts like Kim Yung Il. I think what we are all really afraid of is not Christians, or Muslims or Atheists, but sociopaths and nut jobs in positions of power and/or with access to weapons.
I think on a small scale - I'm not necessarily afraid of religious people trying to impose their will on me - I'm just irritated by them trying to scare me into believing what they do and calling me wicked for my beliefs (note - this does not apply to all religious people, just a very loud, obnoxious few). On a slightly larger scale - I'm more irritated and a little afraid of the religious right wing trying to get rid of the seperation between church and state. On a large scale - I'm definitely afraid of sociopaths and nut jobs with power and weapons!
This is one a huge problem I have with religion. Everyone thinks what they do and what they interperet is the "true" will of god. If there really was only one god as some profess, wouldn't there only be one way too him? This doesn't just apply to the different sects of christianity but all religions. I don't see christians walking into malls and detonating themselves so it would seem that Islam must have the right answer if people are willing to kill themselves for what they believe. Just as sure as one of those suicide bombers thinks he is carrying out Allah's "true" will, there is a preacher in America ranting against Islam so sure that he is carrying out god's "true" will too. So who's right? Neither. Both are extremely deluded and project their own hostilities onto a "god" figure that they use to justify their own faults and limitations in engaging society.
To answer your original question I personally find people's beliefs, mine included, to be crucial in how society moves forward or stays stagnant, if not regressive.
One thing I have found in common with all of the major religions of the world is that they all come back to never questioning your higher power and above all go on faith. This is a deadly combination of ignorance and assurance, if not outright validation. Not just on a global scale of muslims nuking christians first or vice versa but on a day to day level too. Religion raises non-thinking and anti-intellectualism to the highest levels when societies long before us held philosophy, science and reason as the hallmark of what humanity should strive for. Now we elect our leaders on who we want to have a beer with. We have leaders who openly flaunt their ignorance on a range of subjects but just because they read the bible they're qualified leaders? World leaders? No. I could go on but the is the very, very short of it.
I hadn't really thought about it that way, but not sure how someone could force you to be religious - would be like "forcing" a Yankee fan to be a Red Sox fan - you just can't do it. I guess I could see some sort of religious dictatorship (i.e taliban, the church long ago), but I don't see that happening here and that would probably not be good for any of us.
I am semi-religious, but worry all the time about what I am not doing (or am doing) that is wrong, and feeling guilty, worrying about my lack of faith, and all that good stuff that goes with being semi-religious. I envy the devout, one side or the other, because it would seem neither would worry so much about it like I do.
I too do not worry about beliefs or others beliefs. Where we get into fights here on the forums is when religious people (especially Christians) start trolling our forums and become condescending to us "wanting to save us". Or they say we're going to hell which means nothing to an atheist and I always sit and laugh at that for obvious reasons atheists don't believe in any of that
So to answer your question, I'm not sure what you are basing your question on but usually I find us defending ourselves more. You gave a great analogy with the Yankee-Red Sox fan
I'll have to call meeting of the Atheists Club and see if they'd be willing to take a vote on this. We'll get back to you.
NO, NO, NO........you have this all wrong, the Atheist Club is what you use on those preaching at you on your doorstep.
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I think on a small scale - I'm not necessarily afraid of religious people trying to impose their will on me - I'm just irritated by them trying to scare me into believing what they do and calling me wicked for my beliefs (note - this does not apply to all religious people, just a very loud, obnoxious few). On a slightly larger scale - I'm more irritated and a little afraid of the religious right wing trying to get rid of the seperation between church and state. On a large scale - I'm definitely afraid of sociopaths and nut jobs with power and weapons!
- you just can't do it. I guess I could see some sort of religious dictatorship (i.e taliban, the church long ago), but I don't see that happening here and that would probably not be good for any of us.
