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You have been so very polite, which I personally appreciate.
As I see it, you come to the table with the assumption that God exists. Atheists come to the table with the assumption that no god exists. Agnostics say, "I don't know and you can't know either." (I am an agnostic atheist. I say, "I don't know but probably not as there is no proof either way.").
Your question "How come you like talking about something which you believe is non-existent?" is so common. We get asked that constantly. I will answer for myself. I don't care what you or anyone else believes and practices within their own home, car, or personal space. What I do care about is what people do with that believe in schools, government, and in my personal space. Because many people cannot separate their personal beliefs from their behavior, I care very much about religion. I challenge a theist's beliefs so perhaps they will question their behavior.
So, there is no confusion, the behavior I speak of includes but is not limited to failure to take sick children to hospital, bombing clinics and schools etc, denying other religions to build temples/mosques/churches, lobbying for prayer and intelligent design in schools, banning books, denying rights to those with opposing views, and so much more.
Because I'm a scientist, there is the added issue of the assertion that a deity created the universe and that science is garbage. That's another issue for me and others, I'm sure.
I hope this answers, at least in part, why many atheists or agnostics care about religion and discuss it. Again, a person's personal beliefs are of no consequence to me, but when that person takes those beliefs to the government, or flies planes into buildings, or demands that my child be subject to their wishes (banning books, prayer in school, ID in the classroom) - yes, I do care and it makes me angry.
Yeah, I know what you mean. When other people's different beliefs influence the world one lives in it can be difficult. But I would have to say that I don't usually let it make me angry.
But thanks for explaining that to me. It must be difficult always talking about something which you think doesn't exist.
Do you think that a person can separate their personal beliefs from their behaviour without being a hypocrite?
That's not exactly what I meant. Their beliefs shouldn't be forced on others (book banning, mandatory school prayer, making abortions illegal, forcing ID in schools). If you want to refuse medical treatment because god will cure you, that's your prerogative, but refusing to treat your child is, IMO, child abuse. A person can behavior any way they wish in their own car/home, but I get angry when they expect me to do the same. I will speak out against that.
That's not exactly what I meant. Their beliefs shouldn't be forced on others (book banning, mandatory school prayer, making abortions illegal, forcing ID in schools). If you want to refuse medical treatment because god will cure you, that's your prerogative, but refusing to treat your child is, IMO, child abuse. A person can behavior any way they wish in their own car/home, but I get angry when they expect me to do the same. I will speak out against that.
Yeah, I get what you're saying. It is disappointing that we are expected to conform to some particular mold in this world. But still, I don't let those who want me to believe as they do get me angry.
But I see where you are coming from.
I would say that God is holy. This holiness makes it impossible for sin to stand in his presence. Therefore, if a person hasn't accepted the sanctification which comes through the Blood of the Lamb, then that person will die in their sin. This means that they will be unable to come into the presence of God. SO they will be separated from him for eternity. Being separated from everything which is good is hell.
So if a child does something wrong, the father can kill the family dog to "pay the price?" Or perhaps beat his wife? What kind of god kills in order to appease intolerance of sins such as killing?
An abusive god makes abusive men. Or is it? Abusive men make abusive gods.
Yeah, I fully agree about emotional abuse. It's definitely very toxic.
Not sure that agree about your statement with regards to God. I mean, I consider God to be in control regardless. I don't think he needs to deceive me into believing that he is. I reckon Satan questions the authority of God and that he leads humans to do the same thing. He has been doing that since the beginning of creation. But I suppose that if you don't believe God is real then you probably won't believe Satan is real either.
How come you like talking about something which you believe is non-existent? Do you want to help people by showing them that God isn't real? Do you like the scientist called Dawkins, he doesn't believe in God and a lot of people think he is very clever.
Yes, I like Richard Dawkins. I think he is very intelligent. I prefer Stephen Hawkings and Carl Sagan though.
I actually rarely bother talking about god and religion, but I moved to Texas. Religion intrudes into everything here. My dil has been told that she is evil because my granddaughter goes to a Hindu Temple. The parents at the school bus stop decided to target my granddaughter when she was in kindergarten because she is non-Christian. They had a prayer circle at the bus stop every morning. They finally stopped after they saw that we were not going to have her join in. I don't care if they have this inside their homes before school, but trying to get a child who does not believe in *your* religion to come into yours is not respecting her parents. Fortunately, the particular parents who tried that have moved out of the neighborhood.
I don't believe in any god who could allow the abuse of children that I have seen. Nothing you can say can convince me that abused children are part of some plan. If they were that plan itself is evil and abusive. Nothing you can say can convince me that the victims of natural disasters are part of some *plan.* Nothing you can say can convince me that starvation and famine and war are part of some grand plan. If that is the plan, I much prefer human kindness to it. (I don't believe in the Hindu gods or the Jewish god or the Muslim god or Zeus or any other god, btw. You are an atheist with respect to Zeus and Ganesha, btw. I am just an atheist towards one more god than you are).
Yes, I like Richard Dawkins. I think he is very intelligent. I prefer Stephen Hawkings and Carl Sagan though.
I actually rarely bother talking about god and religion, but I moved to Texas. Religion intrudes into everything here. My dil has been told that she is evil because my granddaughter goes to a Hindu Temple. The parents at the school bus stop decided to target my granddaughter when she was in kindergarten because she is non-Christian. They had a prayer circle at the bus stop every morning. They finally stopped after they saw that we were not going to have her join in. I don't care if they have this inside their homes before school, but trying to get a child who does not believe in *your* religion to come into yours is not respecting her parents. Fortunately, the particular parents who tried that have moved out of the neighborhood.
I don't believe in any god who could allow the abuse of children that I have seen. Nothing you can say can convince me that abused children are part of some plan. If they were that plan itself is evil and abusive. Nothing you can say can convince me that the victims of natural disasters are part of some *plan.* Nothing you can say can convince me that starvation and famine and war are part of some grand plan. If that is the plan, I much prefer human kindness to it. (I don't believe in the Hindu gods or the Jewish god or the Muslim god or Zeus or any other god, btw. You are an atheist with respect to Zeus and Ganesha, btw. I am just an atheist towards one more god than you are).
Dorothy
That's OK Dorothy. I believe in God even though he lets those things happen. Satan won't stop until he is destroyed in the Lake of Fire. That will happen when he reveals himself. The world is being set up for that to happen. The war is real, Satan believes fully that he can overcome God, despite his authority being removed by Jesus Christ, such is the nature of pride.
Earth is a warzone.
So if a child does something wrong, the father can kill the family dog to "pay the price?" Or perhaps beat his wife? What kind of god kills in order to appease intolerance of sins such as killing?
An abusive god makes abusive men. Or is it? Abusive men make abusive gods.
I wouldn't think the blood of the family dog would be much of a payment for an offense as grievous and damaging as sin. If that is the way you would like to go then the necessary Sacrfices are all detailed in the first five books of the Holy Bible.
I look to Jesus Christ and accept the blood of the Lamb of God. That pays for all the sins I have committed and that are committed against me. All gods have always killed. It's because Jesus Christ brought Truth and Grace to earth that humans now like to get offended when their maker takes their life away.
A bit ironic, but there you go.
You might want to stop worrying about other's spin on God.
Too many Christians give God a bad name, by exercising their own deluded interpretation and calling it God's will. Once I figured out that it was the Christians, and NOT God that was pushing me away, I was able to embrace God.
That's OK Dorothy. I believe in God even though he lets those things happen. Satan won't stop until he is destroyed in the Lake of Fire. That will happen when he reveals himself. The world is being set up for that to happen. The war is real, Satan believes fully that he can overcome God, despite his authority being removed by Jesus Christ, such is the nature of pride.
Earth is a warzone.
You either already are or you are coming very close to violating the TOS of this forum.
Before you protest give thought to the word disingenuous
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