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Old 07-27-2007, 10:26 AM
 
4,781 posts, read 2,082,895 times
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Last night, I was reading the Bible and the last thing I read was................. 1 Co 15:35
The Reurrection Body..and here I am this morning on City-Data and I opened this thread.

This is what it say's..

But someone may ask, How can the dead be raised?
With what kind of body will they come?
How foolish!
What you sow does not come to life unless it dies.
When you sow, you do not p[lant the body that will be, but just the seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else.
But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body.
All flesh is not the same:
Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another.

There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another.
The sunhas one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another;
and star differs from star in splendor.

So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
So it is written: The first man Adam became a living being; the last adam, a life-giving spirit. The spiritiual did not come first, but the natural,
and after that the spiritual. The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from the heaven. As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as the man from heaven, so also are those who are of Heaven.

And just as we have bourne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from Heaven.

I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed-
in a flash , in a twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet.
For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. when the perisable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come:
Death has been swallowed up in victory.

Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death is your sting?

The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Therefore, my dear brothers, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.
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Old 07-27-2007, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, MI
3,490 posts, read 3,198,393 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishmom View Post
Well you all wrote beautiful and detailed explanations of why you feel this way. Depressing as that thought that there is nothing may be, I can understand it from your points of view.

But for the record I still think I'll see June, GCS, Mooseketeer and of course Jeff (he will be holding the door open and waving y'all in )all the rest in heaven or whatever the after life may be.
I would absolutely honored and overjoyed to welcome my fellow seekers of truth and introduce them to their Creator (although I would prefer it if I could do that on this side of the grave. )
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Old 07-27-2007, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Wherever I want to be... ;)
2,536 posts, read 9,928,487 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffncandace View Post
I of course respect your opinion, but to me, it is a terrifying one. Perhaps I will be seen as not intellectually evolved for saying this, but the idea of absolute nothingness after death, of ceasing to exist, is just abhorrant to me. It grinds against all of my instincts.
Realize that to many atheists like myself, the idea of living one's life on reliance of something other than science, and rather faith, is terrifying. Many of us have an intrinsic desire to prove and live life based on hard, cold facts rather than faith. It's really what makes people happiest. I think that those that have faith probably have an easier time in life overall, especially dealing with hard situations and tragedies, but for us athiests--we need the proof. If I had religion, I would be unhappy, because my mind would ache to prove and disprove everything about it. I am incredibly happy to be an atheist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffncandace View Post
I myself am quite a logical person (for a Christian ). But I feel an internal, deeply rooted need for faith. I don't want to explain and rationalize every little tiny thing in existense.
I LIVE to rationalize things. My life thrives on making judgements and justifying everything in life as fact. Unlike you, I just don't have any desire for "faith" in what is essentially unknown. Shows that you're happiest having faith, and I am happiest having my uncertainties.
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Old 07-27-2007, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Austin Texas
668 posts, read 681,783 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tjukken View Post
i think "GOD" is us..
ouer spirit lives on. perhap rebirth not sure.

we are wached over by spirits of ouer family. (simpel way of saying. some englesh words is hard to write)

Basicly thers no God like the bible say. thers no Jesus like the bible says.

but it is spirituel being's. (us)
we all live on in these spirits. perhaps with greater empathy and understanding of each other.

so even if its no God pleas continue pray. coz then u talk straight to "family" (that hard english word again)

Most say im an atheist for not belewing in God. but i do not se me as one.

Ditto.......
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Old 07-27-2007, 04:14 PM
 
264 posts, read 694,864 times
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Default Atheism and belief in an afterlife are not mutually exclusive

Quote:
Originally Posted by irishmom View Post
This is going to seem silly to all of you but here goes. Why can't you believe that there is an alternative state of life or spiritual being after death even if you don't believe in God?

You know my opinion, we'll all be in heaven saying "I told you so" and arguing the details of how that happened in another 50 or 60 years anyway so it probably doesn't matter. But I'm curious.
Howdy

Not all of us who disbelieve in God disbelieve in an afterlife. I think some part of us does survive death, but I'm probably in the minority among atheists in this regard. A number of highly unusual personal experiences I've had simply don't allow me the luxury of what some call philosophical materialism.

People have attributed all the best and worst of human behavior to "God," and everything I've ever heard or read about this alleged deity strikes me as nothing more than psychological projections of human personality. Many of the statements that believers make about God make him seem morally inferior to the average person, although apparently we're supposed to overlook this fact lest God become offended at us for questioning his goodness--as ridiculous as that may sound.

For me, the incredibility of traditional ideas of God and the impracticalilty of traditional faith was pefectly summed up by Epicurus 2,300 years ago:

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?


But of course, atheism and materialism are two different things, and materialism seems to me like a prejudice. Many of my fellow atheists appear to assume that nothing can exist unless it's perceptible to us by means of the five senses that human beings happen to have, or by means of the instruments that we've devised to aid our senses. I know of no rational basis for making such an assumption. The development of scientific technology has demostrated that there is much more to both the macrocosmos and the microcosmos than our ancestors ever supposed. Who can say what may still lie beyond our perception or what we may not ever be able to detect?
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Old 07-27-2007, 05:04 PM
 
2 posts, read 3,147 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCSTroop View Post
Because life as we know it is processed by the human brain. Everything we see, hear, smell, touch, and taste is all processed by the brain. So a conscious state would require a brain of some sort to process the information. The thing is: I don't see brains floating up to the sky when people die. Of course, I have never witnessed anyone die, but I have never heard reports of this either

To recognize something and understand it as something happening we all know that we must have a brain to perceive this. To have a brain means that we must be alive and a spiritual state is just the opposite of that. That's just my opinion. That, and there is no proof of any sort of heaven or afterlife either
WHERE DID YOU GET YOUR BRAIN? WHERE DID YOUR MOM AND DAD GET
THEIR BRAINS AND THE EGG AND SPERM THAT MADE YOU?

JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE NOT YET BEEN ABLE TO RECOGNIZE YOUR
SPIRIT DOES NOT MEAN YOU DO NOT HAVE ONE AND THAT YOU
WILL ALWAYS BE OUT OF TOUCH WITH IT.
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Old 07-27-2007, 05:13 PM
 
Location: Austin Texas
668 posts, read 681,783 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEEL View Post
WHERE DID YOU GET YOUR BRAIN? WHERE DID YOUR MOM AND DAD GET
THEIR BRAINS AND THE EGG AND SPERM THAT MADE YOU?

JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE NOT YET BEEN ABLE TO RECOGNIZE YOUR
SPIRIT DOES NOT MEAN YOU DO NOT HAVE ONE AND THAT YOU
WILL ALWAYS BE OUT OF TOUCH WITH IT.

He's a good guy JEEL. I'm sure he'll figure it out one of these lifetimes.
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Old 07-27-2007, 05:32 PM
 
Location: Mississippi
6,712 posts, read 13,456,617 times
Reputation: 4317
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEEL View Post
WHERE DID YOU GET YOUR BRAIN? WHERE DID YOUR MOM AND DAD GET
THEIR BRAINS AND THE EGG AND SPERM THAT MADE YOU?

JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE NOT YET BEEN ABLE TO RECOGNIZE YOUR
SPIRIT DOES NOT MEAN YOU DO NOT HAVE ONE AND THAT YOU
WILL ALWAYS BE OUT OF TOUCH WITH IT.
My brain, as proven, is exactly what my DNA has told each cell to be. That's not such a hard concept to follow. My Mom and Dad got their brains from the same place I got mine, and the egg and sperm were results of the DNA telling each individual to produce a sperm and an egg so as to procreate.

As to address the second comment, have you actually physically found your spirit? Let me ask you another question. Where does your spirit exist? Obviously, with MRI's, X-ray's, CT scans, and numerous other medical imaging techniques, we surely must have seen a soul by now. But, we haven't. Which once again begs the question, where is it? You want me to answer the question for you? The soul or spirit is entirely in your brain. Unfortunately, it is a figment of human imagination. The brain can will us to believe a lot of things. People walking in the desert see an oasis and runs towards it. Guess what? No oasis? The mind was playing tricks on them. Everything about a spirit that I have read has a human "aura" about it, why is this? Because we perceive our world through the eyes of a human and therefore we have no better way to explain a spirit than that of a dead human that can still perceive. Show me where a spirit lies, and I will start believing in it.
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Old 07-28-2007, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Between Here and There
3,684 posts, read 11,814,222 times
Reputation: 1689
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEEL View Post
WHERE DID YOU GET YOUR BRAIN? WHERE DID YOUR MOM AND DAD GET
THEIR BRAINS AND THE EGG AND SPERM THAT MADE YOU?

JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE NOT YET BEEN ABLE TO RECOGNIZE YOUR
SPIRIT DOES NOT MEAN YOU DO NOT HAVE ONE AND THAT YOU
WILL ALWAYS BE OUT OF TOUCH WITH IT.
No need to shout or put down a fellow member. I asked the question for an explanation, not to try to convert anyone to a different belief. I'm sure GCS's brain is bigger than most here, that could actually be why he believes as he does.
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Old 07-28-2007, 10:22 AM
 
Location: The Silver State (from the UK)
4,664 posts, read 8,240,727 times
Reputation: 2862
Quote:
Originally Posted by irishmom View Post
This is going to seem silly to all of you but here goes. Why can't you believe that there is an alternative state of life or spiritual being after death even if you don't believe in God?

You know my opinion, we'll all be in heaven saying "I told you so" and arguing the details of how that happened in another 50 or 60 years anyway so it probably doesn't matter. But I'm curious.
I don't believe in God (even though I would like to) because I can't cope with a vast variety of issues in biblical teachings. I hope that there is an afterlife, and think it is the fear of there not being one that pushes people towards religion in the first place (IMO). As for an afterlife of some kind, I don't reject it or accept it. If I have a 'soul', where was it before I was born?

If there is a God I hope he finds me sooner rather than later
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