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This is going to seem silly to all of you but here goes. Why can't you believe that there is an alternative state of life or spiritual being after death even if you don't believe in God?
You know my opinion, we'll all be in heaven saying "I told you so" and arguing the details of how that happened in another 50 or 60 years anyway so it probably doesn't matter. But I'm curious.
My experience is that I was a "believer with doubts" for much of my life and when I confronted the doubts the belief fell apart. I found it really wasn't based on anything but wanting to believe because of being brought up in the church and everything I found when I looked hard at church and biblical history made it even harder to believe. For me, it was more coming clean and admitting that I never truly believed than it was losing faith. I counseled with lots of "faithful" while I was going through this and found that nearly all, including the priest I met with frequently, have doubts and in some cases just outright disbelieve certain things. I was unable to find anyone who could really defend their faith without finally resorting to some variation of "I just have faith" at some point. Many people got very nervous when pressed. Understand this was not confrontational; I was legitimately trying really hard to resolve my doubts and I was pulling for faith to win. At some point, I realized that my options were hypocrisy or atheism. I chose atheism. Because of the experience, I now harbor doubts that anyone truly believes. There probably are some true believers out there, but I think most people who start these discussions are trying to convince themselves of their faith.
Because life as we know it is processed by the human brain. Everything we see, hear, smell, touch, and taste is all processed by the brain. So a conscious state would require a brain of some sort to process the information. The thing is: I don't see brains floating up to the sky when people die. Of course, I have never witnessed anyone die, but I have never heard reports of this either
To recognize something and understand it as something happening we all know that we must have a brain to perceive this. To have a brain means that we must be alive and a spiritual state is just the opposite of that. That's just my opinion. That, and there is no proof of any sort of heaven or afterlife either
A brain is flesh and the flesh dies, it is the spirit that leaves the body and can only be seen leaving the body.by another spirit. God is spirit.
Because life as we know it is processed by the human brain. Everything we see, hear, smell, touch, and taste is all processed by the brain. So a conscious state would require a brain of some sort to process the information. The thing is: I don't see brains floating up to the sky when people die. Of course, I have never witnessed anyone die, but I have never heard reports of this either
To recognize something and understand it as something happening we all know that we must have a brain to perceive this. To have a brain means that we must be alive and a spiritual state is just the opposite of that. That's just my opinion. That, and there is no proof of any sort of heaven or afterlife either
sorry I replied below, I dont know why it didnt post here.
Irish mom
there are thoughts that cause us to doubt, it doesnt want us to believe.
Take every thought captive before doing what it tells you what to do.
some people listen to thoughts that tell them to commit suicide.
A brain is flesh and the flesh dies, it is the spirit that leaves the body and can only be seen leaving the body.by another spirit. God is spirit.
We know flesh dies. The spirit living on may be nice for some to believe, but there really isn't any good reason to believe it, nor in a god.
Quote:
Originally Posted by madera23
Irish mom
there are thoughts that cause us to doubt, it doesn't want us to believe.
Take every thought captive before doing what it tells you what to do.
some people listen to thoughts that tell them to commit suicide.
Arq's atheist Axiom No 8 There is only one Real Sin: Doubt.
I can't recall how often I've seen this 'Satan doesn't want you to be a Christian' gambit to try to frighten people out of asking legitimate questions.
However, don't we get some stoutly declaring that addressing questions just made their faith stronger? If Christianity is worth believing, it shouldn't have to be so afraid of questions that it's believers have to beg you not to doubt or question or Satan will lead you from believing (doubting is that dangerous? Must be pretty short of good responses) and then what?
Well, we die and there is no eternal life grovelling to the Spirit God. I'll take that.
But the spirit does live on, you say? Well..what is there to worry about? Cue judgement and an insecure Heavenly Herod condemning your spirit to some torture devised for something that doesn't actually have flesh for the horrendous crime of not believing something that he designed to look unbelievable and let satan just go ahead and lie without doing a darn thing to stop him.
This makes no sense and it is all about a church thinking up crazy threats to frighten us into not leaving. Don't let 'em do it to you. Use the brain you have. It works fine if you let it.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 06-26-2015 at 03:27 AM..
Irish mom
there are thoughts that cause us to doubt, it doesnt want us to believe.
Take every thought captive before doing what it tells you what to do.
some people listen to thoughts that tell them to commit suicide.
or kill their offspring as an offering; hopefully the voice will come back and say "never mind" but that doesn't always happen.
This is going to seem silly to all of you but here goes. Why can't you believe that there is an alternative state of life or spiritual being after death even if you don't believe in God?
You know my opinion, we'll all be in heaven saying "I told you so" and arguing the details of how that happened in another 50 or 60 years anyway so it probably doesn't matter. But I'm curious.
Can I ask you why you believe in one?
I can give you logical reasons and emotional reasons but can you limit your emotional need considerations and handle a "colder" truth?
for example, life is like an ice cube in a class of water on the kitchen table.
lmao, pun intended ...cold hard facts ...
We know flesh dies. The spirit living on may be nice for some to believe, but there really isn't any good reason to believe it, nor in a god.
Arq's atheist Axiom No 8 There is only one Real Sin: Doubt.
I can't recall how often I've seen this 'Satan doesn't want you to be a Christian' gambit to try to frighten people out of asking legitimate questions.
However, don't we get some stoutly declaring that addressing questions just made their faith stronger? If Christianity is worth believing, it shouldn't have to be so afraid of questions that it's believers have to beg you not to doubt or question or Satan will lead you from believing (doubting is that dangerous? Must be pretty short of good responses) and then what?
Well, we die and there is no eternal life grovelling to the Spirit God. I'll take that.
But the spirit does live on, you say? Well..what is there to worry about? Cue judgement and an insecure Heavenly Herod condemning your spirit to some torture devised for something that doesn't actually have flesh for the horrendous crime of not believing something that he designed to look unbelievable and let satan just go ahead and lie without doing a darn thing to stop him.
This makes no sense and it is all about a church thinking up crazy threats to frighten us into not leaving. Don't let 'em do it to you. Use the brain you have. It works fine if you let it.
It,s true.
satan is alive and well and lives in the minds of men. Just watch your thoughts,
One must have a hunger for food before they eat and some do not have that hunger.
Same with God.
That is a very good point, Madera. Some of us are happy to just live our life as we find it.
We don't have the hunger to believe in some kind of greater meaning to life.
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