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It's gaslighting pure and simple. The actual reasons why unbelievers don't believe are inconvenient to theists to say the least and so they must invent false narratives and put words in our mouths.
nipped for space
"put words in our mouth". Where you and I violently diverged is when you told me not to speak about conclusions that, although valid, make your cause harder by giving theist something to grab onto.
I called "Boiling chips", you put me on your ignore list. Your action proved my point nicely.
I called nothing except the thing I did call. Which is that no one can answer the question I asked, which you, as called, did not answer.
Once again I did not change any topic but DIRECTLY commented on the concept of emotional beliefs and asked a simple.... as yet unanswered question..... where is the emotional beliefs behind the statement: "I find the claim there is a god to be entirely unsubstantiated at this time, and as such I proceed in my life and action under the assumption there is no such entity".
I can not find any, nor I suspect can you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle
you also claim "no god"
Quote where I claimed there is no god please. Find where I said it. And we will see which one of us is "struggling to keep up" exactly.
are they forcible?
willing to fight you down at the slightest hint of disagreement?
Base a stance on emotional need instead of facts?
Is observation superseded by personal meaning?
Use a belief statement as a weapon or punishment?
We actually agree on this. I was making a claim like this a few pages back in the "Why are so many atheists liberal?" thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyl3r
I would contest that. There are a number of atheists here that seem to be very much so the same. They're easiest to describe as "If you're religious, you're always wrong".
This attitude irritates me quite a lot, which probably causes me to notice a bit more.
I could find with relative ease cases where an atheist says something to another atheist and they'll go "oh yeah, I agree", then another case where a Christian says more-or-less the same thing to that atheist and they go "no, that's stupid. You're stupid."
While I understand now what you mean when you say "fundamentalist", I think that word choice causes unnecessary confusion.
Also, I'll add that this is not an "atheist" thing, this is a "City-Data atheist" thing. I wouldn't presume that all Christians are closed minded just because a few Christians here are closed minded and it should be the same with atheists.
I called nothing except the thing I did call. Which is that no one can answer the question I asked, which you, as called, did not answer.
Once again I did not change any topic but DIRECTLY commented on the concept of emotional beliefs and asked a simple.... as yet unanswered question..... where is the emotional beliefs behind the statement: "I find the claim there is a god to be entirely unsubstantiated at this time, and as such I proceed in my life and action under the assumption there is no such entity".
I can not find any, nor I suspect can you.
Quote where I claimed there is no god please. Find where I said it. And we will see which one of us is "struggling to keep up" exactly.
whatever you say dudette. change the topic and now change the focus.
I said I use the word "fundamental" to sum up the list of traits of person has. I said, personality types are a better predictor of how people will react.
you said some crapola and tossed in:
" ... I find the claim there is a god to be entirely unsubstantiated at this time. ..."
Now, like all narcissist, you will claim you didn't mean this or that (or whatever) and now you will proceed to make up some boiling chips nonsense to self justify yourself and say how wrong I was.
stay on topic, if can, but you won't.
You have no choice but to do your next move.
We actually agree on this. I was making a claim like this a few pages back in the "Why are so many atheists liberal?" thread.
While I understand now what you mean when you say "fundamentalist", I think that word choice causes unnecessary confusion.
Also, I'll add that this is not an "atheist" thing, this is a "City-Data atheist" thing. I wouldn't presume that all Christians are closed minded just because a few Christians here are closed minded and it should be the same with atheists.
I agree with you here.
I intentionally use the word fundamentalist with the term atheist so that people think about what they are accusing others of. We accuse "them" of the same things we are guilty of. We are a group of people first and as such we (atheist) are subject to all the good parts and bad parts of any group of people.
I also started calling some atheists "literal" and "fundy" online in '04 when nobody was saying it. Lucky the notions of literal atheist and fundamental atheist are being properly applied to atheism more often today.
I do not have to side with ignorant, self centered, adult children of abuse because we both don't believe in god. Not yet anyway.
To your last point, I more than agree with you, I would side with you on that. I speak to your notions in terms of "apologetic" expressions of atheism and theism as the more rational expression of belief. Basically apologetics means, for me; "use what you learn and apply that knowledge to a statement of belief to see if it holds up. If the statement of belief does not hold up, modify it."
rational people reach rational conclusions. It doesn't mean we agree 100%. And it means there can be more than one rational answer based on what we know.
I intentionally use the word fundamentalist with the term atheist so that people think about what they are accusing others of. We accuse "them" of the same things we are guilty of. We are a group of people first and as such we (atheist) are subject to all the good parts and bad parts of any group of people.
I also started calling some atheists "literal" and "fundy" online in '04 when nobody was saying it. Lucky the notions of literal atheist and fundamental atheist are being properly applied to atheism more often today.
I do not have to side with ignorant, self centered, adult children of abuse because we both don't believe in god. Not yet anyway.
To your last point, I more than agree with you, I would side with you on that. I speak to your notions in terms of "apologetic" expressions of atheism and theism as the more rational expression of belief. Basically apologetics means, for me; "use what you learn and apply that knowledge to a statement of belief to see if it holds up. If the statement of belief does not hold up, modify it."
rational people reach rational conclusions. It doesn't mean we agree 100%. And it means there can be more than one rational answer based on what we know.
Like I said before, I understand how and why you use the term "fundamentalist" or "fundy" atheists, but I personally wouldn't use it, just for clarity sake. From what you've said in the last few posts, I think we are pretty much on the same page.
I believe in intellectual honesty with no exception to who you're talking to. I don't care if you're an atheist or a Muslim or a Pagan or a Christian. If you say something I don't agree with or are criticizing someone for no reason, then I will confront you about it. You don't get a free pass to say dumb **** because you're an atheist.
Also, to be clear, many of the atheists here are honest and I have no problems with. I am not trying to be passive aggressive here
I ask this because I just can't make that choice. I was basically a skeptic from the time I was very young. If it's not tangible, I won't believe in it.
Yet, if you talk to devout Christians, they try to convert people like it is a choice. Granted, these are also people who think you can choose to stop being gay, so whatever...
The way that you are talking about choice is different than what I originally thought this was about. If your brain has always been programed to not believe in things that aren't tangible it seems like you would need some severe brainwashing in order to believe in it. I think other people just need something to believe in because they are scared of dying and scared of the world. So it's easier for them to believe in something that eases their mind, regardless of it's real or not.
Like I said before, I understand how and why you use the term "fundamentalist" or "fundy" atheists, but I personally wouldn't use it, just for clarity sake. From what you've said in the last few posts, I think we are pretty much on the same page.
I believe in intellectual honesty with no exception to who you're talking to. I don't care if you're an atheist or a Muslim or a Pagan or a Christian. If you say something I don't agree with or are criticizing someone for no reason, then I will confront you about it. You don't get a free pass to say dumb **** because you're an atheist.
Also, to be clear, many of the atheists here are honest and I have no problems with. I am not trying to be passive aggressive here
He is uninformed and refuses to be educated. He does not know (or want to know) that 'Fundy', applied to religion has a specific and accurate meaning, but applied to atheism has only a pejorative meaning - loudmouthed, aggressive and arrogant.
It is a far from new accusation and was used against "New" atheism at the start. It is and always was a ploy to try to shame atheists into going back to being cowed and silent so that religion could run rampant as it always did.
Like I said before, I understand how and why you use the term "fundamentalist" or "fundy" atheists, but I personally wouldn't use it, just for clarity sake. From what you've said in the last few posts, I think we are pretty much on the same page.
I believe in intellectual honesty with no exception to who you're talking to. I don't care if you're an atheist or a Muslim or a Pagan or a Christian. If you say something I don't agree with or are criticizing someone for no reason, then I will confront you about it. You don't get a free pass to say dumb **** because you're an atheist.
Also, to be clear, many of the atheists here are honest and I have no problems with. I am not trying to be passive aggressive here
we agree. As we look around everybody has the same clothes, uses the same words, fly the same flags. I think, We are on the same side of the battle field.
Remind me to reread your post if I disagree with you. If we don't agree it might just be a disconnect on my part.
I don't do "passive aggressive." I never understood that term.
So I don't jump around and shout anymore? And I don't let intellectually dishonest people push me around. I speak to each of their points without yelling. That's not "passive."
He is uninformed and refuses to be educated. He does not know (or want to know) that 'Fundy', applied to religion has a specific and accurate meaning, but applied to atheism has only a pejorative meaning - loudmouthed, aggressive and arrogant.
It is a far from new accusation and was used against "New" atheism at the start. It is and always was a ploy to try to shame atheists into going back to being cowed and silent so that religion could run rampant as it always did.
wrong.
I am not an adult child of abuse. I had normal theist parents
you are a walking ploy.
I don't blame anybody but myself for being stupid.
I refuse to dismiss valid claims because "the theist can use it" and "it makes our job harder". Like mord-of-a-rant told me too.
I will not fight fairy tales with fairy-tales like you do.
I will not call regular people delusional and stupid.
I will not let boys in the girls bathroom in high school just because I disagree with christians saying "gay" is against god.
Just because some christians are stupid doesn't mean I have to be. Just because you are jealous and out for revenge doesn't mean I have to be.
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