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I agree with the entirety of your post, but it is not up to you or anyone else to decide these things. The concept of it is harder for me to brush aside as "live and let live." It is obviously a very dangerous stance and this is precisely what happens in authoritarian countries. The state takes over to indoctrinate the kids. It is not up to you to decide what is best for your neighbor's children. The pastis full of leaders that thought they knew best and caused a lot of harm.
Religion works fine as cultural heritage and nothing more should be added. As cultural heritage it is no different than those that celebrate the longest and shortest days of the year.
I will also say that children are also indoctrinated on non-religious dogma in schools according to the political inclinations of those in charge.
Yikes, you were doing so well. There was no need to talk about the Crusades.
1. I've taught or been an administrator in five different schools, one a high school, the others middle or junior high. I have yet to see this indoctrination at school people like you refer to. Well, I take that back. I saw it in my own elementary school growing up. But it's the opposite of what you're talking about. Every Wednesday, students were dismissed an hour early to go to their church for (essentially) Sunday school lessons. That was IF you were Methodist, Catholic, Presbyterian, Baptist, or Episcopal. Otherwise, you weren't allowed to leave early since you would have to cross a main street if you went to any of the other churches in town...except that was a lie, because kids had to cross a major state highway to go to all but the Episcopal church.
2. Why not talk about the Crusades? Your Catholic church talks about things that happened a thousand plus years before the Crusades in every church service.
I agree with the entirety of your post, but it is not up to you or anyone else to decide these things. The concept of it is harder for me to brush aside as "live and let live." It is obviously a very dangerous stance and this is precisely what happens in authoritarian countries. The state takes over to indoctrinate the kids. It is not up to you to decide what is best for your neighbor's children. The pastis full of leaders that thought they knew best and caused a lot of harm.
I grant you that, and am not advocating for the authoritarian state to tell us how to think. But I am admitting that raising our children in the faith of our choosing is not without risk and has potential downsides, as described. A step in the right direction would be for (a) people to recognize that, (b) other people to have the freedom to openly criticize, which should lead to (c) fewer and fewer people indoctrinating their children, over time.
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Originally Posted by Julian658
Religion works fine as cultural heritage and nothing more should be added. As cultural heritage it is no different than those that celebrate the longest and shortest days of the year.
It would be great if everyone left it at that. I enjoy the cultural traditions around Christmas, for example. I don't enjoy having to pretend the magical aspects that come along with it.
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Originally Posted by Julian658
I will also say that children are also indoctrinated on non-religious dogma in schools according to the political inclinations of those in charge.
I don't doubt that, but can you give me an example of something that equates to teaching intelligent design as a legitimate alternative to evolution?
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Originally Posted by Julian658
Yikes, you were doing so well. There was no need to talk about the Crusades.
Why, didn't the Crusades happen, and happen in the name of religion? I did acknowledge they were in the distant past. But we seem to keep finding new and destructive ways to "share our faith" with the world, and that was the point.
2. Why not talk about the Crusades? Your Catholic church talks about things that happened a thousand plus years before the Crusades in every church service.
More than certainly. Their Christian lies about Ancient Roman and Ancient Egyptian and Ancient Jewish societies and historical occurrences were brought up constantly in my Protestant Evangelical Sunday-school. It was to build a false sense of "persecution" which excused them to over-react (especially since we were just impressionable children).
This is very similar to what Muslims do with the ancient Arabian religions.
Excellent post Heela but I like to emphasize the teaching to children that they are sin laden and 'worthless' unless believing in the Christian god is as close to child abuse that affects so many of them forever.
I've posted the lyrics to this song fairly often and have never gotten a reply of any kind which makes me wonder if I have it wrong? https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/whit...loveofall.html
I'm in an adult community and have a couple of close friends that, every once in awhile something happens and they declare that they just don't deserve something or other (or did)because they must not be 'good enough' or haven't prayed enough.
It can be a life long affliction which gets passed onto their next generations and theirs and theirs .
Feel sorry for them? Oh, yes, but in the most loving way
1. I've taught or been an administrator in five different schools, one a high school, the others middle or junior high. I have yet to see this indoctrination at school people like you refer to. Well, I take that back. I saw it in my own elementary school growing up. But it's the opposite of what you're talking about. Every Wednesday, students were dismissed an hour early to go to their church for (essentially) Sunday school lessons. That was IF you were Methodist, Catholic, Presbyterian, Baptist, or Episcopal. Otherwise, you weren't allowed to leave early since you would have to cross a main street if you went to any of the other churches in town...except that was a lie, because kids had to cross a major state highway to go to all but the Episcopal church.
In the old days----------- and that is while you were a kid life circled around Christianity. Just imagine what it was like in medieval times or even the 19 century. Christianity was the glue that held Western society together for centuries. Whether God is real or not is a moot point.
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2. Why not talk about the Crusades? Your Catholic church talks about things that happened a thousand plus years before the Crusades in every church service.
They talk about the good bits and they acknowledge the errors of the past. But, for the love of God the first crusade is almost a 1000 years old. Why judge people that lived so long ago with a 21st century mindset. Would you judge your grandparents with today's standards?
Excellent post Heela but I like to emphasize the teaching to children that they are sin laden and 'worthless' unless believing in the Christian god is as close to child abuse that affects so many of them forever.
I've posted the lyrics to this song fairly often and have never gotten a reply of any kind which makes me wonder if I have it wrong? https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/whit...loveofall.html
I'm in an adult community and have a couple of close friends that, every once in awhile something happens and they declare that they just don't deserve something or other (or did)because they must not be 'good enough' or haven't prayed enough.
It can be a life long affliction which gets passed onto their next generations and theirs and theirs .
Feel sorry for them? Oh, yes, but in the most loving way
I have kids in my family that attend public school in the Northeast and they are heavily indoctrinated in toxic PC culture. And there is not much the parents can do.
I have kids in my family that attend public school in the Northeast and they are heavily indoctrinated in toxic PC culture. And there is not much the parents can do.
Exactly what are they being indoctrinated into. I have not seen that in any public schools.
It would be great if everyone left it at that. I enjoy the cultural traditions around Christmas, for example. I don't enjoy having to pretend the magical aspects that come along with it.
Just imagine a world with no ancient traditions. In other words, no history.
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I don't doubt that, but can you give me an example of something that equates to teaching intelligent design as a legitimate alternative to evolution?
My kids learned evolution in Catholic school.
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Why, didn't the Crusades happen, and happen in the name of religion? I did acknowledge they were in the distant past. But we seem to keep finding new and destructive ways to "share our faith" with the world, and that was the point.
As a Catholic I can tell you that the best way to hit the Church on the head is with the cover up of pedophilia. Mentioning the Crusades is "bush league" and an ineffective talking point. I know it is a favorite among new atheists, but in reality it is just a worn out recycled phase with little meaning. People of that era were constantly at war. As I told the other poster: "Why judge people that lived so long ago with a 21st century mindset. Would you judge your grandparents with today's standards"?
BTW, I am glad you enjoy the cultural aspects of Christianity!
I grew up catholic with zero religious pressure. We went to school and did want we had to do, but there was very little proselytizing and many of my classmates were not even Catholic. But, I always felt it was odd to be an Evangelical and guess the pressure must has been extreme. Evangelical people used to say we were not Christians. They felt Catholic were not Christian.
It depends a bit on which compartment of evangelicals you're talking about, but yes, there was usually a fair bit of anti-Catholic sentiment with varying degrees of rabidness. I was generally taught that individual Catholics could be Christians, but that they would be better off leaving the Church if they were to "grow" in their "relationship" with god. But then we patronized more liberal Protestants as "our weaker brothers in Christ", too. We were pretty arrogant turds really.
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