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Well, you may have something there. Perhaps it not so much whether one is a trained musician (which doesn't guarantee that one can tell good music from bad, but I have to agree that one should be familiar with music to be able to know whether a song, dance -tune or symphony hits the spot or it doesn't.
"The Atheist Hymn" (the only one there is) doesn't. In fact it is a spoof song; a parody just there to carry the send -up text.
I have a Theory.... ...that songs fall into three basic kinds (excluding songs to dance to rather than listen to).
Those with thoughtful, intentionally clever or not to put too fine a point on it, pretentious, words and the tune doesn't matter and is often banal and hackneyed.
The ones wherein the tune is catchy and/or good but the words don't matter so much (and are often idiotic and childish). These are very often the one 'to dance to.'
The ones that combine good tune and words. That's why the Beatles were the best.
There are of course the ones that have neither and are nearly always mercifully forgotten.
I have no formal music training but I am a piano player addicted to rhythm and blues and the "classics" of the 50's and 60's. I also enjoy the vocal stylings of ABBA and the Rock of the Beatles. True Classical music is also among my favorites for pure listening emjoyment.
That's ...ahh...very Mystic. By True classical, you mean CPE Bach to early Beethoven and with Mozart and Haydn as the epitome of the style?
I do but I prefer the works of the father JS Bach. The Germanic style of the son is not as pleasing. Fur Elise is one of my all-time favorite compositions for piano, and my tastes are not limited to those listed. Remember, Arq, I prefaced my post by saying I do NOT have any formal music training.
That's ...ahh...very Mystic. By True classical, you mean CPE Bach to early Beethoven and with Mozart and Haydn as the epitome of the style?
I wondered what he meant by that also but my obnoxious quotion was up for the day and I let it go; nobody likes a showoff. However, what he may mean is art music (as opposed to folk, jazz, popular music). I've gotten into precarious screaming matches in forums by using that phrase, even though it is used on practically every page of the Groves, the Grout and musicology textbooks. It's not pejorative, it's really not. It just means formal, concert music. Other kinds of music also have their virtuosic players.
"Classical" has two meanings: (1) the formal, art music of all eras, originating in Europe; and (2) 18th Century classic era music, the music of Haydn, his friend A. Mozart and the peasant, Herr Beethoven, "the Great Mogul."
Classical music would precede the Bachs and starts earlier with Leonin and Perotin, early polyphony, on through Monteverdi and the rest. Read the first few chapters of Grout.
Last edited by KaraZetterberg153; 09-17-2018 at 10:30 PM..
I do but I prefer the works of the father JS Bach. The Germanic style of the son is not as pleasing. Fur Elise is one of my all-time favorite compositions for piano, and my tastes are not limited to those listed. Remember, Arq, I prefaced my post by saying I do NOT have any formal music training.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraZetterberg153
I wondered what he meant by that also but my obnoxious quotion was up for the day and I let it go; nobody likes a showoff. However, what he may mean is art music (as opposed to folk, jazz, popular music). I've gotten into precarious screaming matches in forums by using that phrase, even though it is used on practically every page of the Groves, the Grout and musicology textbooks. It's not pejorative, it's really not. It just means formal, concert music. Other kinds of music also have their virtuosic players.
"Classical" has two meanings: (1) the formal, art music of all eras, originating in Europe; and (2) 18th Century classic era music, the music of Haydn, his friend A. Mozart and the peasant, Herr Berthoven, "the Great Mogul."
Classical music would precede the Bachs and starts earlier with Leonin and Perotin, early polyphony, on through Monteverdi and the rest. Read the first few chapters of Grout.
Sorry for my ignorance, but I simply meant the more formal concert music as opposed to the popular forms that I like to play.
Sorry for my ignorance, but I simply meant the more formal concert music as opposed to the popular forms that I like to play.
Right, as I said: art music.
I would not be so presumptuous as to suggest you are ignorant and I do not believe that is the case. What is the Twain quote? Something like, 'we are all ignorant, just about different subjects.'
I do but I prefer the works of the father JS Bach. The Germanic style of the son is not as pleasing. Fur Elise is one of my all-time favorite compositions for piano, and my tastes are not limited to those listed. Remember, Arq, I prefaced my post by saying I do NOT have any formal music training.
Nor do I, so I don't hold that against you I also prefer 'Baroque' style (Bach, Handel, Vivaldi, Scarlatti) the the Galant style (the "True" classical). I prefer the sturdy athleticism of the Baroque to the powdered - wig bowing and curtsying of the galante. Just my own preference.
"On the page it looked...NOTHING!!...Almost comical, just a pulse...Bassoons, Basset Horns...like a rusty squeeze box...
And then...suddenly...high above it...an oboe...A single note hanging there, unwavering!!.... Until....a clarinet took it over...sweetened it to a phrase of such delight!!
F. Murray Abraham as Salieri
From the 1984 Motion Picture "Amadeus"
"On the page it looked...NOTHING!!...Almost comical, just a pulse...Bassoons, Basset Horns...like a rusty squeeze box...
And then...suddenly...high above it...an oboe...A single note hanging there, unwavering!!.... Until....a clarinet took it over...sweetened it to a phrase of such delight!!
F. Murray Abraham as Salieri
From the 1984 Motion Picture "Amadeus"
I'm tempted to post the 'History Buffs' review of Amadaeus (1). That scene is picked out as a top scene. It shows the difference between the competent but routine composer and the genius.
Like an earlier poster said as regards the Atheist song (said he, frantically leaping like Gimli for the Topic) something both in classical and popular that stands out. Something that makes you sit up and listen. The atheist song doesn't, and isn't intended to.
(1) But I can't, because of 2 deleted scenes. One with Mozart being hired to give lessons to a daughter, but is driven away by the howling dogs. He grabs a wine bottle on the way out and takes a swig on the way home.
This being cut, in the film and review, we just see Mozart in the street drinking like a wino, but we lost the context.
The other is Constanza Mozart stripping off for Salieri (and you never saw such pretty duckies, as Henry VIII would say) and Salieri Throws her out! The real Salierii would never have done that even though he wasn't trying to get even with Mozart and Mrs Mozart wasn't putting out while Wolfgang was giving a concert.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 09-18-2018 at 11:28 AM..
I'm tempted to post the 'History Buffs' review of Amadaeus (1). That scene is picked out as a top scene. It shows the difference between the competent but routine composer and the genius.
Like an earlier poster said as regards the Atheist song (said he, frantically leaping like Gimli for the Topic) something both in classical and popular that stands out. Something that makes you sit up and listen. The atheist song doesn't, and isn't intended to.
(1) But I can't, because of 2 deleted scenes. One with Mozart being hired to give lessons to a daughter, but is driven away by the howling dogs. He grabs a wine bottle on the way out and takes a swig on the way home.
This being cut, in the film and review, we just see Mozart in the street drinking like a wino, but we lost the context.
The other is Constanza Mozart stripping off for Salieri (and you never saw such pretty duckies, as Henry VIII would say) and Salieri Throws her out! The real Salierii would never have done that even though he wasn't trying to get even with Mozart and Mrs Mozart wasn't putting out while Wolfgang was giving a concert.
That film was also criticized for things like showing zippers on dresses--there were no zippers back then, and similar things which I've forgotten. The Salieri story was really not true but many other details were accurate, like Mozart's laugh and his scatological vocabulary.
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...that songs fall into three basic kinds (excluding songs to dance to rather than listen to).
That's ...ahh...very Mystic. By True classical, you mean CPE Bach to early Beethoven and with Mozart and Haydn as the epitome of the style?
I also prefer 'Baroque' style (Bach, Handel, Vivaldi, Scarlatti) the the Galant style (the "True" classical). I prefer the sturdy athleticism of the Baroque to the powdered - wig bowing and curtsying of the galante. Just my own preference.
for the Topic) something both in classical and popular that stands out. Something that makes you sit up and listen. The atheist song doesn't, and isn't intended to.
