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If I got this correct you are only speaking about a small segment of science and your belief about them investigating God without the tools and knowledge that they are doing so?
When a geographer is studio the is static rebound in a fjord on Baffin Island they are not exploring a God but when they are studin human consciousness they might be ? And this is your belief ?
You know, badlander, I am convinced you are sincerely trying to understand where I am coming from and this attempt of yours is close enough. The locus of consciousness is the key and in my Synthesis, it is the spacetime field itself, NOT our individual bodies.
NOT God, NOT God, ad nauseum. You have just a belief because you can not know there IS a conscious, intelligent god. That is your problem, not ours.
Your primary misconception is that only my beliefs are beliefs, but it is true of your beliefs about the ontology of our Reality as well. You do not and cannot KNOW that your belief about our Reality is true. You demand to ASSume it without any justification using a bogus demand of nonexistence that you can NEVER prove since all we are investigating DOES exist.
Your primary misconception is that only my beliefs are beliefs, but it is true of your beliefs about the ontology of our Reality as well.
Once again for the slow learners, our beliefs are extrapolated from what we know, unlike yours. This pretense our beliefs are equally valid is just the usual theistic belief / faith game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
You do not and cannot KNOW that your belief about our Reality is true.
Na und? As I have never made this claim, you lecturing me on something I already know but have never claimed is just a straw man attempt to make my position look stupid, a technique of a dishonest charlatan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
You demand to ASSume it without any justification using a bogus demand of nonexistence that you can NEVER prove since all we are investigating DOES exist.
I have given my justification many, many times. Your need to misrepresent this is just another straw man attempt to make my position look stupid, a technique of a dishonest charlatan.
Once again for the slow learners, our beliefs are extrapolated from what we know, unlike yours. This pretense our beliefs are equally valid is just the usual theistic belief/faith game.
Na und? As I have never made this claim, you lecturing me on something I already know but have never claimed is just a straw man attempt to make my position look stupid, a technique of a dishonest charlatan.
I have given my justification many, many times. Your need to misrepresent this is just another straw man attempt to make my position look stupid, a technique of a dishonest charlatan.
Once again for the intransigent learners, Wrong! Your beliefs are extrapolated from the mistaken ASSumption that science has determined conclusively and knows WHAT it is investigating. It has NOT and does NOT and can NOT. Pointing out this ASSumption underlying your professed evidence you rely on is not a strawman nor charlatanism.
No. Your premise and argument is flawed apparently (if it makes sense at all) in the idea that a god is there but science hasn't the tools to detect it. Science looks at and explains what it can and it isn't a god in any sense other than yours of taking matter and material - plus unknowns which prove nothing - and calling it 'God' while then insisting that it is it conscious.
I don't know whether you can comprehend this very simple debunk of the semantic double fiddle you have set up but I'm sure that everybody else can.
actually he is right and you are wrong. We don't know what god is. we are in a reality stack. we are not even close to the top.
science is learning what the realty stack is. It won't be a deity, that's true enough, but it aint going to be less complex than humans either. In fact, saying its going to less complex than human actually may be wrose than a deity. We can see its not less complex.
No. Your premise and argument is flawed apparently (if it makes sense at all) in the idea that a god is there but science hasn't the tools to detect it. Science looks at and explains what it can and it isn't a god in any sense other than yours of taking matter and material - plus unknowns which prove nothing - and calling it 'God' while then insisting that it is it conscious.
I don't know whether you can comprehend this very simple debunk of the semantic double fiddle you have set up but I'm sure that everybody else can.
You have an unblemished record of misstating and misunderstanding my explanations, Arq. Detection relies on measurements and science has the ability to detect what it can measure but that does not mean it can determine WHAT it is actually taking measures of. It is also restricted to measuring phenomena that exist at the macro level which causes significant problems with the substrate at the quantum level of existence. You are completely unequipped to comprehend any of this because your mind is trapped in pragmatic reductionist materialism and can't get out.
You have a 95% record of fallacy and denial, arrogance and deprecation. Life, the universe and everything is matter and energy. if it is anything else, the burden of proof falls on you to show what, not appeal to unknowns. I would say (especially since your recent debacle on another thread, that you are trying to wriggle out of) that nobody is fooled by your fabrications and bluster.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle
actually he is right and you are wrong (in appealing to unknowns). We don't know what god is. we are in a reality stack. we are not even close to the top.
science is learning what the realty stack is. It won't be a deity, that's true enough, but it aint going to be less complex than humans either. In fact, saying its going to less complex than human actually may be wrose than a deity. We can see its not less complex.
Nobody knows - as you said - which makes you saying he is wrong and I am right by default. I urge you to stop trying to prop up a collapsing argument and discretedited poster and discrediting yourself in the process.
You have a 95% record of fallacy and denial, arrogance and deprecation. Life, the universe and everything is matter and energy. if it is anything else, the burden of proof falls on you to show what, not appeal to unknowns. I would say (especially since your recent debacle on another thread, that you are trying to wriggle out of) that nobody is fooled by your fabrications and bluster.
Nobody knows - as you said - which makes you saying he is wrong and I am right by default. I urge you to stop trying to prop up a collapsing argument and discretedited poster and discrediting yourself in the process.
I am just going to ignore the personal attack. It just silly do that. You know I don't care. Stay on topic. You like tzaph does, and indeed many religion-ist type people do, are focusing on what you don't know now. I am only focusing what we do know.
Its a misconception that atheist do not believe in things from "awe", living planet, to cosmic mind and points in between.
We know enough to make a cell phone. We can say something today we couldn't in the past.
We know enough to say we are part of a reality that increases in complexity. Theist hide behind "we don't know it it all so I can say what I want.". We atheist do not have to do that trans. If you can't say to a theist, yeah, we are part of a reality stack is vastly more complex than humans, AND, its not deity. Maybe thats a you problem and not an arach problem.
The personal attack -attempt is yours. I have merely responded to Mystic disproving what he posted. Going down that road will do you no good. The rest of whatever it was you were trying to say won't do you any good either.
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The personal attack -attempt is yours. I have merely responded to Mystic disproving what he posted. Going down that road will do you no good. The rest of whatever it was you were trying to say won't do you any good either.
