Moral obligations for atheists (socialism, believe, Christ, minority)
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I'm not sure I understand your last sentence. Are you saying I'm confused or my response was ro one that was confused?
Referring to anyone who has confusion about what a moral obligation is. Didn't mean you specifically. I think you generally understand it's not a religious and/or atheist thing.
Referring to anyone who has confusion about what a moral obligation is. Didn't mean you specifically. I think you generally understand it's not a religious and/or atheist thing.
Thanks for clearly that up. I appreciate you for doing that
In that case, if there is a union, it will be under the banner of rational ideas which means that both sides can participate. All I can offer up is what made sense to me and that was to not raise a religious family.
I'm happy with that conclusion, and I wouldn't mind raising a religious family (of sorts) provided they respected the right of others to not be religious, not to mention those of other religions.
I recall the old Jack Chick tracts which were quite a Thing when I was younger. Of course that mostly attacked atheism (and evolution-theory) but they could have a slam at Catholicism and Islam, as well. And that must tell you about the views of US religious fundamentalism.
Which of course will raise some accusations about the Atheist Agenda. The attacks we do are to make the case that the god -claim is not credible. We have reason to believe that to be true, but the point is that you need to have support as well.
I don't believe that might makes right, but I do believe that being right doesn't do any good if you don't have some might to back it up (1)As has been seen too recently, what's true or false doesn't matter but how many votes you have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes
It is good they have freedom of religion. But it took less than 10 years in my country for the Nazis to take power. And look what happened over 4 years in the US. And there are religious groups that would be very happy with themselves in a theocracy.
Exactly. We have had a scare (ever since the Tea -party fielding Sarah Palin as a candidate) and a warning. I hardly need go into details. Even now bought Jurors are getting the Mob boss off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe
"When Fascism Comes To America, It Will Be Wrapped in the Flag and Carrying a Bible."
It would have to be because religion and political power have always been joined at the hip. In America, religion and Patriotism are virtually the same thing - at least for Christian fundamentalism.
It's nothing like the same thing here, where religion hardly comes into politics at all. But where it does it is always with a xenophobic and right wing flavour.
(1) though that Might can be an agreed social, political and legal platform to give the Right to the one with the case that looks true. The ongoing struggle is to keep the system from being taken over by the ones without the Right, but with the power. And that's where the people and their vote are the ones with the responsibility to get the law, the politics and the education they want.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 02-23-2021 at 06:25 PM..
Good Points. While we do not usually discuss Politics, it must be remembered that in almost all cases, separation of church and state must be fundamental. Countries with theocracy, such as Saudi Arabia and Yemen, rank high on the lists of human right's abuses.
I mention this only because growing up in the American South, I met many people who wanted to see the United States changed to a theocracy. While few and far between, these always fundamentalist Christian's or separatist Catholics were quick to make known that it was THEIR brand of Christianity which should suffice as rule for everyone. Think of that...the United States under Hillside Baptist Church.....
Except that these were generally uneducated, unintelligent people . Not the kinds who would make effective or successful leaders (they made effective and successful laborers and lower paying jobs petty thief's etc) A few ere flat earthers, while many others were racist and had an extreme hatred of everyone and everything.
That, my friend, is the true example of "good, American Christians" at their absolute worse.
Most were just , as we said in Texas, Dumber than Dirt. But they were a loud an vocal minority, garnering attention for themselves and distracting from the real work at hand. They are not to be empowered, they are not to be encouraged and absolutely under no situation are they to be placated into being allowed to poison the rest of the world with their lack of intelligence, their anti-education campaigns and their desire to destroy all that our forefathers fought and died for.
And if necessary for Atheists' like myself, it is a moral obligation I have to expose these "morons" for what and who they are, so that humanity can learn from their mistakes and take steps to see that they are never repeated in the future.
Quite so. I could already hear the rustle of disapproval as I posted the above, that when talking about the things that atheists should do (as people with a secularist view - not as some kind of atheist 'worldview' let alone Dogma)is to do with society, which means society, ethics and of course, politics, I drifted in that direction.
We have sometimes seen after a post 'These people actually have a vote!" This is the reason why - and I'm going to back to the, it now seems, Idyllic days of Dubhya where attempts to have Creationism taught in school could still be thrown out in a court of law, and the lies and denial and indeed ignorance of the ID crowd having been made plain, the Law did its' job...
Why, I say, it is the reason why it a moral duty of anyone and everyone, religious, irreligious or atheist, to push back against the craziness and the religion that fuels it. It is Not in any way at all, possibly, good enough to sit quietly and rely on the Law and constitution to keep this stuff at bay and those who suggest it are either sadly failing to grasp the situation or they are secretly working to see that the crazies get to re -write the constitution to say what they want, just as they do the Bible and of course the science textbooks, and have the Law jump to their order (1) .
it was significant that it came out after the Dover/kitzmiller case that the ID side were confident that the judge (being appointed by G.W Bush) would find for them - though not because they thought they had a case. Most of them declined to be witnesses and left Behe pretty to conduct his own defence. But because they thought they had bought Law and politics with their vote. And the repulsive attacks on the Judge when they found out they were wrong...well, they are par for the course, now, with these people.
(1) it is why I say to those who are not religious fundamentalists that we are working for their rights too, since should the lunatics get to keep the keys, once they have got the atheist and Locked Him Up, they will go for anyone else that may not do Religion the way they think it should be done.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 02-23-2021 at 07:51 PM..
He did sort of answer my question the second time. I don't think he has such example he can present to back his claim.
She
Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander
Yes I can read and the topic bar says moral obligations for atheists.
It is not my obligation to tell others what to believe.
It is not the obligation for atheists to fix all the faults of our society.
Fighting racism, sexism, poverty, ageism , discrimination and other ills of society should be the obligations for all citizens. It is not the sole obligations for atheists or Lutherans or blacks but all of society.
My only obligation as an atheists is to correct misunderstanding by theists of what atheism means, all the rest of those obligations are independent of being being an atheist or a theists. Same as a Canadian it is not my responsibility to address the ills of the States, even mentioning some of the ways the States can address those gets me labelled as anti American. At the risk of being called anti American, one way to address your school districts system. In most major Canadian cities thete is one public school system, all the property school taxes go into one pot to be divided so that a student in a poor neighborhood has as good a school as a rich kid. In Alberta it goes futher, school taxes for the entire province goes into one pot with a proper distribution to all schools.
I see little respect coming from your posts so if you expect respect perhaps be a little more respectful yourself.
Yes. All citizens. Of course atheists (despite what George Bush said being citizens) have a moral question to answer as everyone else does (1). Not having a god - belief to issue commands about ethics and morals, the non -belief has a knock on, but atheism simply addresses the god -claim; believable or not, and what atheists do about anything else is as People, the same as everyone else.
(1) I was going to say unless they refuse to answer it. But as Shakespeare said, no man is an Island (2) and, unless they go to live on one, nobody can escape answering the question.
(2) women of course Are Islands, equipped either with singing sirens or bristling with AP artillery and, very often, both.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 02-23-2021 at 07:41 PM..
It is good they have freedom of religion. But it took less than 10 years in my country for the Nazis to take power. And look what happened over 4 years in the US. And there are religious groups that would be very happy with themselves in a theocracy.
They are simply ambitious. Not allowing them to take over will take more than rational, moral atheists. It will require equally ambitious people on the other side. My goals rarely align with ambitious people.
Good Points. While we do not usually discuss Politics, it must be remembered that in almost all cases, separation of church and state must be fundamental. Countries with theocracy, such as Saudi Arabia and Yemen, rank high on the lists of human right's abuses.
I mention this only because growing up in the American South, I met many people who wanted to see the United States changed to a theocracy. While few and far between, these always fundamentalist Christian's or separatist Catholics were quick to make known that it was THEIR brand of Christianity which should suffice as rule for everyone. Think of that...the United States under Hillside Baptist Church.....
Except that these were generally uneducated, unintelligent people . Not the kinds who would make effective or successful leaders (they made effective and successful laborers and lower paying jobs petty thief's etc) A few ere flat earthers, while many others were racist and had an extreme hatred of everyone and everything.
That, my friend, is the true example of "good, American Christians" at their absolute worse.
Most were just , as we said in Texas, Dumber than Dirt. But they were a loud an vocal minority, garnering attention for themselves and distracting from the real work at hand. They are not to be empowered, they are not to be encouraged and absolutely under no situation are they to be placated into being allowed to poison the rest of the world with their lack of intelligence, their anti-education campaigns and their desire to destroy all that our forefathers fought and died for.
And if necessary for Atheists' like myself, it is a moral obligation I have to expose these "morons" for what and who they are, so that humanity can learn from their mistakes and take steps to see that they are never repeated in the future.
I grew up in Texas. I have family who think the US should be a country under their brand of Christianity. There is no reasoning with them. I have tried. The only thing that you can hold over them is access to resources and even then, it is a temporary strategy. There is a lot of pride of not needing other people. This strategy and outlook affects me even to this day. It is one of the reasons I don't take sides.
My guess is that they do this because it is the one way they know they are not being controlled.
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as I posted the above, that when talking about the things that atheists should do (as people with a secularist view - not as some kind of atheist 'worldview' let alone Dogma)is to do with society, which means society, ethics and of course, politics, I drifted in that direction.
being citizens) have a moral question to answer as everyone else does (1). Not having a god - belief to issue commands about ethics and morals, the non -belief has a knock on, but atheism simply addresses the god -claim; believable or not, and what atheists do about anything else is as People, the same as everyone else.
